ZMF Headphones - Official Thread

[bpcarb]

@Sturosen

Each individual purchase was justifiable at the time - I wouldn’t even consider the VC had I not used the Aeolus, so even if I sold my Aeolus, it served its purpose.

While the purchase of an item may be justified, its retention may not be.

@Sturosen

The value I see in having them all is that having them all stops me from buying even more headphones - how could I justify the Audeze flagships, for example?

@Sturosen

I do wonder if I should thin the herd.

Replacement is sometimes an option.

[Sturosen]

Completely agree that a justified purchase doesn’t need to be a permanent acquisition. (Just don’t tell me replacement is an option - I know all too well what I’ll do with that freedom…)

[bigshel99]

@Roark

So it is time to break up with a headphone that helped me dive deeper into my music, and guided me to a better place…

They gave you all their love, they played all your music, even the strange stuff, without judgement and you abandon them… They deserve better. I’ll send you my address to ship them. (joking, of course).

Seriously tho, it happens… tastes change, mood changes, etc. Will you keep them in case you get in the mood for them again or not?

[Roark]

Yes yes, I took and took and gave little in return

They are not going anywhere anytime soon, will have them on hand for comparisons or to fire up the OTL and give them a listen. Which my poor OTL feels abandoned sitting without its driver tubes and not connected to anything.

[chrisnyc75]

How very dare you! lol (totally kidding!) While I have not tired from my VO at all (quite to the contrary, adding Utopia to my stable recently only reinforced how much I love VO specifically for what it’s good at), one thing you said resonates with me: VO is not my preferred headphone with vinyl. I prefer my VO with a touch of EQ (nothing drastic, just a slight tweak to the mids & treble), and removing digital from the chain removes my ability to EQ, so I generally prefer a more neutral headphone for vinyl listening.

I am a big believer in use cases. Always ask yourself if you have a use case for any given piece of gear. If the answer is no, then you don’t need any other explanation or reason, it’s just time to let that piece of gear go.

@eric75

I’m finding despite having a leaning towards dark headphones, there’s an intangible aspect that you really can’t anticipate, but it has a powerful effect when in play. I often wonder why I love the Atticus so much, when the VC is a technically better headphone in every way, and is also on the warmer/darker side, especially with universe pads. But when I listen to the Atticus, I creates a powerful response in me, engaging me and drawing me into the heart and soul of the music. The VC at times could do it, but not consistently. I found myself listening, but not participating emotionally in the music.

I’m a mystery unto myself haha. But I know when things resonate, and I cling to them desperately when they do. I’d be heartbroken if my Atticus was taken from me.

Wow, this is exactly how I feel about my VO. I tend to prefer brighter headphones, and I generally refuse to eq anything. But then there’s Verite, warm and dark and EQ’d, and it just speaks to me.

[bpcarb]

It can’t be that ZMF performance doesn’t meet a listener’s expectations. It’s got to be preferences, use case, taste, mood, fickle, the listener changing, lacking intangibles. We all don’t own the same gear; consensus is boring. Discourse is healthy in the pursuit of truth.

@Roark

I feel that they have hit a plateau as my chain evolved over the last year, most recently with the addition of a turntable this plateau has hit the final nail.

This is an interesting observation regarding the ability to scale. I no longer own ZMF. I enjoyed my time with them and being a member of the fraternity of owners, and believe that ZMF should be a part of every audiophile’s journey. My preferences changed, as did my criteria for technical performance of the entire system. Perhaps that’s related to your scalability point. I will likely revisit ZMF if they update their drivers.

[pennstac]

Just read your admission about the VO. I have not heard the VO, nor in fact, any ZMF. Nor a Focal Utopia or even the Clear. No Rad-0, D8000, Susvara, or Empy.

I’m sorry that you no longer find yourself listening to the poor VO. It must feel like a sad, discarded wooden castanet in the midst of the Blue Man Group percussion session.

It is clearly time for you to pass on your VO to the underprivileged. Like a Muppet in a trash can, the underclass waits eagerly for castoff crumbs. PM me for the mailing address of my Muppet trash can.

[Roark]

No Blue Man Group sessions, no trash can with muppets, and no need to feel sorry for me and my VO. I wanted to share something about the experience that is often not discussed, everything is not always roses, nor does a break-up entail ill feelings.

They will be staying with me, have no desire to sell but happy to loan out to folks who care to listen to them. I am after all a benevolent tyrant, and reserve my ire for those that are underserving of my charity.

[pennstac]

That’s a very nice attitude. As a lapsed tightwad (with respect to my recent office sound) I will respectfully decline the temptation to listen to headphones that retail for double what my best ones did. This does not prevent me from considering low(ish) 5 figure speakers for the living room in the next year or two…

[Roark]

Hey if you want to swap your nice office speakers, I am down for that

[pennstac]

Sorry, they’re therapeutic. Client today had a trying story with a wayward adult child. I streamed “Mercy Mercy Mercy” from Cannonball Adderly’s Live at the Club album from Qobuz, which had a soothing effect. After her jaw dropped at the sound.

[Haasaaroni]

I totally get this with my Aeolus (I know, very different from the VO and VC), and appreciate the post! I’ve thought time and time again that I’ll sell the Aeolus off because its technical capabilities just don’t match the headphones I own along with it (currently the Auteur and Arya). But every time I decide not to sell it, I’m so glad. I usually pick it up a day or two later and find that magic again, stronger than ever.

For me, it comes down to my changing preferences, like others have said here as well. When we take ourselves to be static, solid, independently existing “things,” we forget that we are just as subject to change as a tree or a cloud. One day, I’ll love the openness of the Arya and hate the Aeolus, and another I find the Arya thin and sharp and just want to hear some thick, warm bass and gooey, euphonic sound. Other days I just want to hear the perfectly natural vocal presentation of the Auteur and care about nothing else. I can’t control when the urges hit, or when things shift, but I’m just glad (and extremely fortunate) to have other options when they do.

Also, what a testament to ZMF that customers like you should feel bad about not loving a headphone!! And can you imagine how important input like yours is to them? In further improving their craft? If I built headphones, I would want to hear from people exactly like you when something isn’t quite on par with other TOTL offerings. You’re doing them a huge service.

[zach915m]

Hey guys – ZMF November will be up on the site later today to peruse (nothing for sale until this weekend)! Sorry if we’ve been behind on any of your emails and keeping up with the thread!
Definitely an interesting discussion regarding my work here – thank you for the feedback and I’m so glad that ZMF has helped a lot of you on your journey to finding the sound that speaks to your specific tastes and systems.

I have definitely crafted our collection of headphones as that – a collection of drivers, tunings use cases that will meet the needs as a collection. Definitely some of our drivers are more resolving than others and can be compared to other headphones from other MFR’s, and we definitely get those emails and messages all the time on why our headphones are better than or worse than any other model out there for a myriad of reasons. It’s all very subjective, use case based, mood based, and all the other things you guys mention above. What I’ve found is that the end result, is that we are all audiophiles, and always want to try new things, so getting rid of one of our headphones to try something else should definitely not be fretted about!

I understand the comparison of what our gear delivers comparatively to a bunch of other headphones, but finite subjective statements doesn’t tell the full story in either direction. I can assure you though I take all this very seriously and usually there’s a headphone in our line-up that suits a specific need, because our headphones were designed, and curated as a collection, and not a ramp of technicalities. If you have questions about our line-up we are here to help with as little bias as we can muster!

[eric75]

@zach915m

usually there’s a headphone in our line-up that suits a specific need, because our headphones were designed, and curated as a collection, and not a ramp of technicalities.

Excellent point! I think many (myself included at times) view all manufacturer lineups as a technical ramp-up, with the most resolving being “the best”. But it’s all about preference and personal synergy. Often “the best” isn’t the most resolving. It’s whatever set elicits an emotional response in you.

Edit - And my “best” won’t be yours, so on and so forth. We’re all different, embrace it!

[zach915m]

Amen!

I definitely don’t visualize our line-up in a standard “business model” type way, and that’s probably why there’s so many people who hear the Aeolus and like it more than a more expensive model or Vice Versa.

We also don’t run a business through any distributors who demand high (distributor) margins, so there’s no built in price or “wood tax” that I have heard many times in these discussions. We actually wouldn’t be able to charge less for a plastic or metal headphone that’s the same price as our stock woods, because we the costs for wood vs the moulds of those other parts would cancel out for a small business like ours since we’re not building at scale.

Anyways thank you - and I’ll be posting a lot more video’s on youtube to show more of what’s going on over here as well.

[ckhirnigs113]

This is very true, especially in regards to the ZMF lineup. I currently have a VC and Auteur. My first ZMF was the Aeolus, which I sadly owned before I had a nicer DAC or any tube amps. I never really got to hear their full potential. I sold them to fund my first VC purchase.

I really like both headphones I have now, but I might be leaning towards liking the Auteur more. I really didn’t expect this, but with my current gear and preferences, the Auteur is doing it for me. The Olive VC I just picked up looks amazing, but it all comes down to what sounds best to one’s own ears. I’m not going to rush my decision, but I might stick with the Auteur as my main headphone.

[generic]

@zach915m

the costs for wood vs the moulds of those other parts would cancel out for a small business like ours since we’re not building at scale.

Hmmm. One might run bulk polymer sheets through CNC machines. This need not require molds or alternative parts, and perhaps not even changes to existing CNC programming. At the bare minimum it’d require just one type and color of plastic. No need for specialized wood sources, labor, QC, or finishing. A smaller parts inventory allows one to produce more items with the same labor.

It’d not look like the ZMF of today, but it could be done.

[zach915m]

I think this is another mis-nomer about our business - that I do think watching our upcoming you-tube video’s will help explain. Is that while yes - there is a difference between costs of plastic parts and wood parts at a base level of material and processing - once you do all the math (and yes I’ve done it) it ends up being so minute in the big picture of running a business that it won’t matter to the final price of the product. As now that ZMF isn’t just me in a room, and rather a full team of talented crafts-people, the wood finishing aspect is such a small element in what allows us to run as a business and intrinsically exist, that it wouldn’t end up changing the end price of the stock headphones when all the factors are added together if we just changed the material.

And aside from that - there’s tons of plastic and just metal headphones out there that are all awesome! It’s not my journey.

Anyways - this is a headphone forum - let’s talk about headphones!

[generic]

Yeah, I don’t disagree at all. ZMF has carved out a distinct niche and shouldn’t mess it up. Many costly milled steel products before WW2 were simplified into cast, stamped, and cheap wartime goods. They functioned just fine (aka produced the same “sound”) but were nothing like the pre-war products.

You’d lose many customers in a hobby audio business that’s very much focused on luxury.

[Sturosen]

It’s really a pleasure to get an inside view on the business of making the things we love. Just another reason to love ZMF.