General purchase advice: Ask your questions/for advice here!

I need advice!
2605

The type of headphone I am looking for is a open back over ear. I’ve got a decently wide melon so weight isn’t much of a concern (I tried the lcd2c and they fit on my head very nicely).

My price range is: 700-1200

I like to listen to: Rock, alt rock, rap, heavy metal, pop, pop rock

Here are some songs I listen to so you get a better idea:
Heavy dirty soul by twenty one pilots (rock) Twenty One Pilots-Heavydirtysoul (Lyrics) - YouTube

Natural by imagine dragons (alt rock/rock)

Levitate Also by twenty one pilots (rap): twenty one pilots - Levitate (Official Video) - YouTube

Therapy Session by NF (rap): NF - Therapy Session - YouTube

Run to the hills by Iron Maiden (heavy metal) Iron Maiden - Run To The Hills (Official Video) - YouTube

Drivers license by Oliver Rodrigo (pop/pop rock) Olivia Rodrigo - drivers license (Official Video) - YouTube

Brutal also by Oliver Rodrigo (pop rock)

I will use them for: music and gaming. I will be at my home and I’d use them in a private environment

I was considering the elex or the something from the lcd series, was thinking g the lcd2c or the lcd2 or even the lcd gx or (I’d use the mic so it’s won’t going to waste) or the lcd x.Would be upgrading from the sundara. I have an Asgard 3 and a modi 3+ would that be enough power? Would it be worth upgrading?

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2606

If you plan to keep the Sundara go for dynamic driver headphone. The Elex is a good upgrade and will complement your Sundara.
If you prefer to let go the Sundara for a planar headphone of higher quality get the LCD X 2021.
Elex and LCD X will have no problems with the Asgard.

2607

Rather than musical genre, do you consider yourself to be treble sensitive? If so, both the LCD-2C (Classic) and Elex can be perceived as bright. Do you like strong bass? Do you like a flat/neutral or V shaped presentation? Do you want a lot of bass or tight and precise bass? Do you want a more dynamic and punchy delivery, or a diffuse presentation where nothing much stands out?

As @monochromios said, the Asgard 3 has enough power for these headphones.

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2608

As I experienced more audiophile headphones, one generalization I have heard that I think is flat out false is “open backs have better sound than closed”. And I see people ask for open backs when a closed back would suit them better for their preferences. So, after you answer @generic questions, I may chime in again.

Yep, it will be enough power. That will power nearly anything on the market. we are in a time where you can buy an amp based purely on preferences. Now, you may want to change your stack, but you aren’t going to plug any of the mentioned headphones into that and think “geez, I need a new amp and dac”. Won’t happen. (unless its defective. Gotta cover my bases!)

Welcome to the audio adventure!

2609

Would sell my sundara

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2610

I wouldn’t say I’m very treble sensitive but I do not want harsh treble so once it’s not super bright I will be okay. I tried out the lcd2c and The treble wasn’t a issue for me. I do love accurate bass. I can’t really answer what presentation I like as I haven’t tried out much but I will go to some more stores in my area so in the coming weeks I should know a bit more on what exact presentation I like but I’d say I like something which isn’t extremely analytical but isn’t that laid back (would that be neutral?). I want to appreciate the details of the music I listen to but I don’t want something that takes that to the up most extreme, like the dt 1990 pro, but I still want good separation and accuracy/detail. I’d say I want tight and precise bass as I listen to a lot of bass heavy music already. I like something punchy as it complements the music I listen to nicely.

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2611

Are there any dacs that might be worth upgrading too? The Asgard doesn’t have balanced output so single ended performance is what matters. The best way I’ve heard it put is it’s easy to design good open back headphone then a closed back so like you said open backs aren’t automatically better then closed backs

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2612

It’s purely preference. Personally, I have found desktop stacks to be more trouble than they are worth (I drive my stuff from a qudelix 5k, but I do have another option coming in again to try).

Whether you should upgrade your dac or not is purely personal preference. Of the “better than qudelix” things I have heard, the ifi idsd micro signature is the only one that represented enough increase in sound quality to be worth the excessive price difference. That is me. You may find upgrades well worth it. And I like that unit better than everything else above and below in terms of sound. (a90/d90 stack didn’t impress me).

To be fair, I haven’t heard a huge range of amps and dacs. And most of them were typical delta sigma options. so, I haven’t heard OTL tube or R2R or more colored options yet. Mostly topping and thx stuff.

With that stack, I would focus on finding a headphone you like and put your money there. That will make the biggest difference in sound quality and enjoyment. Upgrade other stuff later. (I went that path, and still haven’t found “other stuff” worth keeping yet).

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2613

Many of us compare headphones to the benchmark Sennheiser HD-650 (equal to the Drop HD-6XX; $220). It’s on the warmer side of neutral and responds well to amp and DAC changes. Alternatively, the HD-600 is on the neutral side of neutral (I own one) and many understand its delivery.

Most hear Beyer and Grado as very bright, while Sennheiser, Focal, Audeze, HiFiMan, and Dan Clark are less bright. Specific models vary. Neutral headphones can often be shaped by the DAC and amp, as well as the musical content. This is why I focus on neutral models (everyday HD-600 & Focal Clear).

I hear the LCD-2C as V shaped – bright highs but recessed vocals and elevated mid-bass. It’s a very “rock & roll” delivery, resembling the V shaped EQ profile common to the 1980s. However, I sold my LCD-2C because of comfort issues – not my thing.

I previously owned the Elex, but sold it after upgrading to the Clear. The Clear doesn’t have the upper-mid glare of the Elex (e.g., faintly metallic female voices and violins), nor its sometimes piercing treble. The original Clear falls in your price bracket too, once $1,500 it’s on closeout for $990 at Headphones.com. The new Clear MG is $1,500.

I put more attention into DACs in 2021, buying a Schiit Bifrost 2 ($699) and an iFi ZenDAC (was $129, now $159). I now believe audiophile headphones can form a tripod with the amp and DAC. My HD-600 in particular shifts from being bright and spiteful to an all-day pleasure with the right setup. As naturally leaning bright and loving a balanced amp, I pair it with the ZenDAC as the cheapest good match (per its integral amp, but this has limited bass potential).

The Bifrost 2 is multibit, and a transformational experience versus my Delta Sigma DACs (AKM 4490, Burr-Brown in the ZenDAC, and old ESS Sabre, plus misc cheaper stuff). It presents far more harmonics, reverb, and atmosphere than the others. The ZenDAC’s delivery comes the closest, but is less nuanced. All my Delta Sigma DACs seem to interpret recorded noise and atmospherics as something to eliminate, and lean toward whining artifacts.

I set the Bifrost 2 to feed my speaker system, and played it for my wife. She’s no audiophile and loves her $15 panda bear IEMs…but could easily hear and appreciate the differences between the Bifrost 2, AKM 4490, and a very cheap DAC. She prefers the rich, smooth, and detailed Bifrost 2 too.

The differences start to stand out after 1-2 hours. Closed backs trap air and pound the eardrums harder. Both styles can sound fantastic, but open backs more often sound better for longer. I like planar closed headphones (e.g., Dan Clark AEON), as they aren’t very dynamic and minimize fatigue.

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2614

I’ve heard great things about the bifrost 2 and would love to own it but $700 is a quite the bullet to bite. I’ve generally heard you should spend more on your amp then your dac, what would you say about this? Focal clear for $990 is a great deal though the elex seems to have dropped to $600. So for my preferences would you say the elex would be a better option then than a lcd? If the elex sticks around at $600 that’s nearly half the price of the lcd x! If I did get the elex that would be my endgame as the clear for $1500 is a lot for me. Also how source revealing is the elex? If I did upgrade to them would it be worth selling my Asgard 3 and modi and getting a jot and either a modius or if I have the cash a bifrost 2 or upgrade to the jot and modius then just get a Bifrost level dac down the road

2615

Again, preference. I know people that will take the hd 6xx on high end amps and dacs over expensive headphones over cheaper dacs. I also know people who prefer the money in the headphones (myself included) not focused on the amp or dac.

You really need to hear them. DD headphones tend to have a different presentation than planar headphones. Some people love/hate one or the other and that narrows the field. I like both for different reasons, but prefer the impact of DD. I find that to be a higher priority for my personal enjoyment. Others feel clarity and resolution brings the most enjoyment and simply don’t feel like the impact adds anything for them.

For me, “punchy” probably means going toward a DD. And, I haven’t heard the focals, so I can’t advise you with that. I can say that closed headphones tend to have more impactful bass because the air has nowhere to go. BUT fit makes a huge difference. Even wearing glasses can take closed punchy headphones to moderately anemic bass. And, of course, any other seal issues could do the same thing.

If possible, get to a store (I don’t have one, so I had to order/return everything I tried) and try as much variety as you can.

The biggest surprise for me was how much I loved a bassy, warm, punchy headphone (within reason, bass invasion annoys me greatly). I thought I wanted a planar super clear headphone. And I do like that, but then I heard a warm, punchy headphone and I can’t put it down. So, just keep trying stuff. See what you enjoy.

Also, your tastes may change. I now find a former favorite of mine to be to clean and bright. I still love it as a compliment to my main set, but it isn’t what I would choose today. You will probably grow in this hobby over time. Expect that.

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2616

If doing it over, I’d skip the Elex (wayyyyyyy too much glare) and go straight to the Clear. Note that the Clear has solid resale value, and you may be able to flip it for $800 to $900 after months of use. The Clear on a phone/tablet has a lot more air and nuance than the Elex. On a nice amp the Elex moves in the direction of the Clear, and the Clear moves in the direction of the $4K Utopia. But, they are technically stratified and never meet.

In general you should spend more on the transducers than amp and DAC. The Sennheiser 600 family is the glaring exception, as $220 to $350 headphones improve with all sorts of expensive and exotic stuff.

I myself like the Clear but wouldn’t consider the LCD at all (terrible comfort), and would have to use an equalizer for pleasant use of the Elex. The Elex is absolutely, positively not my endgame. The HD-600 with the right setup could keep me happy. The Clear could be a more technical endgame, and frankly I’m likely to plateau on it for quite a while unless I try a $2,500 to $3,000 ZMF Verite. The combo of the $699 Bifrost 2, $500 RebelAmp, and $1,000 Clear is fantastic (for me) per any practical or financial measure.

My other major 2021 purchase was a Rebel Audio RebelAmp ($500). It’s a Class A headphone amp on another level. It makes everything I own sound better.

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2617

I can’t remember, did you ever use the jotunheim 2? (Just ordered one, and amazingly it “shipped” so I might actually have it this century)

2618

I don’t have a Jotunheim, and compared the RebelAmp to my Lyr 3 in the Rebel thread. It’d be nice to compare the Jot for stage, dynamics, etc. The Lyr isn’t technical per its addition of a tube.

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2619

I live in London, though I’m buying in the US as it’s cheaper and I can, so there’s a lot of audio shops. I checked online and I saw some which had both clear and lcd-x so I could get a direct comparison. Imo how much you spend on an amp will depend quite a lot on how hard your headphones are to drive. For the sundara I’m spending $300 in my stack and $350 in the headphones but if you bought the lcd2c there’s no real need to get something nicer than the Asgard

2620

Want do you mean by ‘glare’? Personally I just use my headphones for my desk setup and not for my phone especially when I’m traveling, would either have to buy a portable amp as the Asgard is way too big to travel with. If we say the clear stays at $1500, I’m not going be able to get them for $990, and the elex stays at $600 in your opinion is it worth the $900 more? Have heard great things about the rebel amp only thing which is abit of downside is no balanced input, is this actually a big deal?

2621

Schiit’s shipping does take a long while. I’m going to order the Asgard and modi soon, I ordered it on sunday but it got canceled, and 6-8 weeks for the Asgard is terribly inconvenient for me as a family friend is bringing them over to me and there going to have to ship the Asgard to me as it won’t arrive in time

2622

The volume levels of female voices, trumpets, and similar frequencies are elevated. They are disproportionately loud and dominate the mix. Metaphorically, it’s like staring into car headlights and making everything else nearby seem darker. I apply this language to the harsh, thin, bright, edgy, sharp, and piercing ranges in the image below:

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image768×359 114 KB

[Source]

That’s something you truly must try for yourself. It’s a lot of money for many people but nothing for others. Within the serious hobby community, many people would “buy to try” and then quickly sell, buy used from a hobby forum and pay only for shipping, or borrow from a friend, or demo in a store, or get one on a loaner tour, or visit an audio conference/event to demo.

For most hobby purchases I don’t care very much about the purchase price, but care a lot about (1) depreciation/how much items can be resold for, and (2) how much demand there is for used items. One can lose a lot of money from the start (e.g., many Chinese brands) or get stuck with nominally valuable items that no one wants. IMO the Clear is on the better side of these calculations.

Several years ago I bought a slew of balanced cables and tried them with most of my headphones. To my ears balanced mostly controls the artifacts generated by low-to-mid priced dynamic drivers. I heard major differences with the Sennheiser HD-600, less glare/brightness with the Elex, but little or no changes with most others. I heard absolutely no difference with my planar headphones at the time (Audeze, HiFiMan, Dan Clark) – they only responded to more current.

DAC noise and DAC artifacts affect the need for balanced too, as balanced made a bigger difference with my cheaper and noisier ones. The Bifrost 2 doesn’t seem to generate the ultra high frequency noise of my cheaper DACs, and thereby there’s no need to control noise via a balanced amp.

At this point I’m strongly considering sending my balanced but cold, analytical, unnatural THX AAA 789 away. It sounds awful for everyday use versus my RebelAmp or Schiit Lyr 3. The 789 is far more technical than the Lyr 3, but with most setups it forces one to focus on trivial artifacts (e.g., hot mics, violin rosin noise, etc.) and recording errors rather than the music.

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2623

I would think the asgard can drive the sundara fine. Possibly even really well based on feedback. I don’t own the sundara anymore because I don’t have a good enough amp. I will probably re-buy it if I end up keeping a desktop amp (or get a micro signature/diablo again)

It’s not just the shipping, most stuff is backordered (and there seems to be a history of not meeting the stated time frames). I explicitly ordered the jotunheim that should ship quickly (and it did), but the schiit facebook group sometimes has people waiting quite some time even for the faster shipping items to start shipping. Part of the reason I haven’t tried anything schiit yet. Mostly a covid thing (I hope)

But, soon, I will have both an m11 plus and jotunheim 2 to evaluate. We shall see if either will be kept.

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2624

I think there’s a real danger here in having too many variables to account for - simultaneously choosing headphones, a DAC, an amp, determining if the whole thing needs to be balanced - and these variables making the decision overly complicated. It also increases the risk of you not getting the right setup for your preferences and budget. And making all this even more difficult is the fact that you have a limited window in which to make a decision and buy stuff, before you’ve even heard any of it, in order for your friends can bring it back to the UK for you. A lot could go wrong here.

There’s also the important issue of overall synergy in your setup. An amp that might sound great with one set of headphones may not with others.

I’d recommend that you consider breaking this decision down into discrete steps: making a decision about which headphones to get first, and then choosing the amp and finally the DAC. I realize, though, that you’ve got a limited opportunity and time to make a decision so I hope the following couple of suggestions help.

1. Auditioning Headphones
To identify which headphones you want to get I’d strongly encourage you to audition the headphones first. I’ve encountered headphones that I thought I’d love - from the reviews and online impressions I read - and that, when I heard them, I didn’t like at all. $700-1200 is a lot for a blind purchase. And if you don’t know what the headphones sound like, you can’t make an informed decision about which DAC or amp to buy to pair with them. A warmer-sounding pair of headphones might become overly warm with an Asgard 3, for instance.

Since you live in London, you have a bunch of opportunities to audition headphones at shops like Audio Sanctuary, Spiritland, and some of the Richer Sounds branches (the one in London Bridge might be a good one?).

If any of the headphones you can audition is really appealing to you, you can rule out headphones like the Elex that you can’t audition before purchasing. Then again, if you don’t like any of the ones you audition in London, you could take a risk on buying the Elex or OG Clear (I assume the OG Clear is hard to find for audition in the UK now).

2. Buy and Sell Gear (for as minimal a loss as possible)
An alternative approach might be for you to pick up second-hand Elex or OG Clears, that you can’t audition in a shop, and then sell them again for minimal loss if they’re don’t tickle your fancy.

Can you run over budget temporarily and then sell off what you don’t want? I ask because, if you can bring back a bunch of Schiit and Drop items to the UK from the US, you might be able to re-sell them in the UK without losing too much money - I’m assuming here that the scarcity of Schiit gear and the OG Clear as well as the Elex in the UK would make for decent re-sale prices. If I’m right about this (and I don’t know that I am, so it would be best to look into this beforehand), you could have a lot of fun experimenting temporarily with a bunch of gear and then sell off what you don’t like.

3. Calculate an Overall Budget
You’ve mentioned $700-1200 as your budget for the headphones. Does that include the funds from the sale of your current stuff? It would be helpful for you to make a firm decision about overall budget so that we can offer advice about appropriate DAC and amp pairings (again, because of too many variables).

I’d recommend putting as much of your money into the headphones first. Some of them, like the OG Clear, don’t have finicky amplification needs, and while they scale with better gear, you could get an affordable amp now and upgrade later. A better headphone might also serve you well for many years. Personally, I’d go with a $1000 headphone and $200 invested in a DAC and amp, and then I’d upgrade the DAC and amp later. Do you want to make a one-and-done purchase, though?

Alright, this is getting too long. Two last thoughts: I love Schiit Audio’s gear (I have the Fulla 2, Magni 3, and Bifrost 2, and I’m saving up for the Jot 2). But given the production delays, and given that you might have a hard time with any warranty issues that might come up, is it worth buying Schiit gear?

Finally, and I think this gets us to the heart of your dilemma: is it better to spend, say, $600 on an Elex with $600 invested in a DAC and an amp, or $1000 on a pair of headphones like the OG Clear, and $200 in a DAC and amp?

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