I might add that I had some other “reasonable” ideas from seeing oversimplifications of the ADC and DAC process - turning analog music into bits and then decoding those bits. OBVIOUSLY, if this was all done correctly, (and we have checksums) then clearly the bits going in and out will be the same. And further that the sound output from any properly functioning digital DAC would be the same.
Ohhh, yes, I fell into most of the logical noob traps. Someday I’ll explain the
Thanks to @pennstac for jumping in with helpful input.
HPNoob, audio can be as simple or intricate as you are willing and able. Each person needs to determine where they fall on the spectrum, and what’s worth it in the name of enjoying the music.
A separate DAC is optional to the extent your computer music source has an on-board DAC, but the computer’s DAC is unlikely to sound as good as a separate DAC.
The separate DAC goes between your computer and the amp.
Some amps come equipped with a DAC module, allowing for a DAC/amp combo in a single unit. This is a convenient solution, but may not sound as good as separate units.
Multibit is for headphones too.
USB out from the computer to the separate DAC should be plug and play.
Alternatively if no separate DAC is used, 3.5mm out from the computer to the amp’s RCA input should require no additional software.
TRUTH
Again TRUTH, and the source of many a wallet-draining adventure in audio. The key word is MAY. Back in the day, we had a “Receiver” that combined an AM and/or FM tuner, an amplifier, a pre-amplifier, and usually a phono amplifier. All more or less designed to work together. Many sounded quite good.
Those into audio would prefer separate components, each unit is it’s own box. And then they’d have to by high quality wires (old radio and telephone folks call them “patch cords” and new audiophiles call them “interconnects”) to connect them together. And of course sometimes they complimented each other and sometimes they didn’t. Endless source of amusement and product for sale.
I still use an integrated amp on my main system, which is pre-amp and amp in the same box. Sounds just fine. Until I over-upgrade my speakers, I’m told.
TRUE about MAY. I still have a Yamaha receiver purchased in 1999 for my speakers/TV watching. It continues to do the job for its purpose.
Thanks for highlighting that some integrated amps perform better than some separate pre-amp and power amp setups.
Over-upgrading is the worst.
I think we should leave the bi-amping and bi-wiring discussion for another day 
Yes most definitely, I get where you are going and your common sense. I’m not that young, and I am fully aware of 8 tracks and vinyls.
I am definitely not rushing into anything. In the sundara post we had some discussion. My computer does have a built in dac and amp. But many details are missing. It says the computer supports 384/32bit and headphones up to 600 ohms. It is a very expensive motherboard, it comes with a whole home theater setup on the IO panel, including a 6.3 mm jack. What we had discussed is that even though those things maybe present a sufficient amount of information was missing. Mentioned in that post.
I was hoping that would run my sundara, at least a 100 dollars worth of dac/amp in the system[computer]. Sure it would run it, but may overload the system, so a secondary dac amp was suggested.
I am not a rich or wealthy person, and personally just wanted to go for a magnetic planar headset. I had a friend who had a nice Audeze, I believe the LCD-2. And I really enjoyed those headphones.
But as I am merely getting my toes wet I’m not trying to jump into anything that crazy.
However, now with all this new things being thrown at me, I would rather spend more on a DAC/Amp for the purpose of any possible future upgrades.
But as mentioned one thing is leading to another, first the headphones are out of the way and now we got the DAC/amp second and now seeing even a third piece of this puzzle. Which I am sure I do not need at this time.
Just feeling around to see what is the best bang for the buck and not later ending up having to purchase more and dish out 300-500 on top of what I’m spending now. Just to get the main part out of the way now seeking the best option.
So like the Asgard 3 is only 199 with no upgrades, a 100 dollars more than the Schitt amp suggested for me by these wonderful gentlemen.
Then I can upgrade the dac for 100 and 200 more jumping to 400 for the Asgard 3 and I’m not sure what’s suitable. Then I see the guy using the Asgard 3 with another device and says the BiFrost 2 will eliminate the need for a third piece of equipment and in their opinion is better.
But I’m sure, as you someone who purchased it, has a much more premium price tag.
So I’m trying to get the Sundara[cost vs performance] of dac/amp/preamp whatever the correct terminology maybe, but that is my point. And my current end goal.
And my motherboard in case you were curious is a MSI Z390 MEG Godlike. Currently the most expensive motherboard on the market.
As mentioned above trying to see if that has any utility as well in combination with an external dac/amp, mentioned in my comments above.
Not taking anybody’s advice forgranted. Just trying to find the sweet spot.
The headphones themselves (transducers) largely determine the level of detail you can realize in a headphone setup. If you switched to the Focal Clear ($1,500 retail) you’d hear tons of details.
Support for 384/32bit, 600 ohms, and 6.3 mm jack have little or nothing to do with detail retrieval. The headphones themselves dominate. Old CD audio (44.1/16) sounds great on the right setup. The 6.3 mm jack is electrically identical to the 3.5 mm jack and can be converted with a simple adapter (i.e., no relevance at all).
Many of us (myself included) have spent a lot of time and money trying to correct the flaws or improve headphones we don’t particularly like. It’s often more effective for both cost and avoiding aggravation to just buy different headphones. Many hobbyists buy and trade used audiophile products to keep the costs down.
You won’t hear the differences if your headphones can’t reproduce what the amp and DAC deliver.
Moderately priced planar headphones have moderate detail potential. You just may not be happy with the Sundara and there’s little to be done to change that for $100 to $5,000.
As @Torq previously explained, there are limitations to audio/expensive motherboards. I’d bet you could exceed the performance of it with a $100 amp and $100 DAC.
If you’re not in a rush, you might want to wait three and a half months because Audeze periodically has sales (of b-stock headphones, typically, I believe). I picked up my pair of LCD2-C for $495 last November (in the Black Friday sale). I can’t guarantee Audeze will sell the LCD2-C again this year, but the sale might be worth keeping an eye out for.
Everything that @generic pointed out is correct.
I figured you’d be aware of 8 tracks and vinyls, that’s my sense of humor creeping out. I’m also very tight with my audio dollar, and spent well over a year making my decision about where I’d put Bifrost2 money. Seach “skinflint” in the forum, and my name pops up. I have bought used on occasion.
Your expensive motherboard was designed with computer and perhaps gaming in mind, not audio. Even when they tout audio features, they are aiming at a different audience. I have a Sager (Clevo) gaming laptop that’s getting pretty old. I used it for work, not gaming, but I needed power. It has 32meg ram, an Intel 3840QM i7 processor, and an expensive RealTek High Definition Audio board. I hardly ever use the audio out. It has a TOSLINK digital audio out, which is quiet, I think it’s a 192/24, and of course USB which can support higher bitrates. (I use a 2014 Mac Mini for my audio, USB out. It also has TOSLINK)
The problem with computers is that while the digital out may be fine (either USB or TOSLINK), the AUDIO OUT is generally a secondary consideration. And the digital out means that you need to process it with a DAC. The Audio Out has been processed by the motherboard’s DAC. Analog audio out from any computer motherboard is usually a set of compromises. The computer is inherently a noisy place electrically.
That doesn’t make it as good as a cheap iFi Zen DAC for $129. Or any of the Schiit DACs.
It’s your ears, your money, and you decide the level you will be happy with. The big problem is that once you start to hear the differences, you can get lost in an upgrade cycle.
Hello,
I have to say this place is a wonderful unexpected find. I have spent a week reading threads and watching youtube videos. I have to ask, how can audio nerds have such deep pornstar quality voices? Have they been digitally altered?
I found this site accidentally as I was looking for an external DAC to drive a set of 5.1 speakers off of my Macbook Pro. Mostly I was looking for a quick and easy solution so I could run video conferencing and music (Tidal) when not in meetings. Now that I have found this dark corner of the Internet I am quite excited to get something new.
Here are the headphones that are currently in my possession:
I have Astrell and Kern AK70 MKII I use primarily when I am on the move for lossless play. I have to say the HIFIMAN Ananda sounds fantastic on the AK70.
Music wise I have varying tastes from Jazz to Rock (60-70s) to Punk to New Wave and others. Huge Dylan and Smiths/Morrissey fan so that will be playing at least once a day.
I had been toying with getting a tube amp for my office stereo system but decided to give a headphone tube amp a try first (obviously a much cheaper starting option). After spending some time reading reviews and looking at availability I went for the “Monolith Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier” so i could use balanced input and output. I was hoping to hook up a DAC (XLR) and one of my turntables (RCA) so this looked like a good option. I have a Music Hall MMF 5.1 turntable and Rega Aria MM/MC phono stage I could dedicate for hookup. I also have a Cambridge Audio StreamMagic6 I could use as a temporary DAC (or even the AK70).
After a week Amazon has informed me they lost it en route to my place so I will need to order another one, sooooo….
I revisited my decision and started looking at a dedicated balanced stack, which I could run standalone anywhere, but would still like the option of hooking up a turntable. I am not above buying multiple stacks over time, but as a first go I was toying with the following pairings:
I can drive Tidal/MQA from my Macbook Pro into either system, as well as a turntable if I so desire. Given I have zero experience with either product pair are there any big differences I should be aware of? I know people have been recommending the dedicated Bifrost instead of the integrated Jotunheim DAC.
As a followup question - How does the Mjolnir compare to the Jotunheim? Is it full of tubie goodness?
Thank you!
Welcome. You have some nice pieces to put together. I’m too after work fried to answer plus although I have some similar equipment I don’t have the right stuff to reply to your exact question. You’ve found the right place for a good answer, however.
I wanted to be sure to welcome someone who probably has a 40% overlap with my vinyl collection.
I would recommend the Bifrost 2. It is leagues above the integrated DAC you can get in the Jotenheim. I would also recommend the Bifrost 2 over the RME.
As for Mjolnir vs Jotenheim, I would say hold off on a Mjolnir and get Jotenheim. The Mjolnir isn’t super tubey and I believe they will be upgrading it in the future. Plus in its curent iteration don’t think its that good for the price it is at.
Another thing to look at would be the new Schiit Magnius. It also is fully balanced and might be worth consideration
The Bifrost 2 is a great DAC. I prefer it over the ADI-2FS. I own both.
The Mjolnir is a great amp, but it’s kind of a specialist. It’s forte is slam and impact. While it sounds good with stock tubes, some rare nos glass is recommended to really get the most out of it. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you already had a headphone setup and we’re looking to improve certain aspects that match the MJ’s strengths.
Only 40% overlap? You have 60% classical and opera vinyl 
Thank you for the welcome!
Any comments on the Jotunheim MM Passive Phono module? Does it slot in to the chassis where the USB port is on the stock photos?
I know people are saying get the Mani for $30 more, but this would save wires, and I already have pre-maps I could use for the application, just thinking about space.
@antdroid does have a lovely voice…
Yes I believe it slots where the usb DAC module would go.
I dont know what to say.
Not so much Opera. Yes classical, classic rock, bluegrass, world. But yes Ramones, Dead Kennedys, Smiths, Replacements, Devo, Talking Heads. Yes quite a bit of Jazz. Poke around here in the music threads.
Just accept it and create a lullaby youtube channel please… 
Thank you for the advice. I just put in an order for the Jotunheim with the phono module, Bifrost, and thought what the hell you only live once so I added a Magnius.