Headphones.com X Ampsandsound FORGE Tube Amplifier - Official Thread

Official AMP/DAC/DAP Model Discussion
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Welcome to the community.
8/100 ohm definitely.
The 8 ohm tap will drive them sweetly and with very low background noise in comparison to higher tap.
My Mogwai OG has been made by Justin very similar to the Forge and the 8 ohm tap with planars is so good.
I actually use it for all my headphones and apart for lower noise aid prefer it since it sounds more controlled even with HD600.

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For anyone interested, @MRHifiReviews had a live stream (in April) with @ampsandsound, @TylersEclectic, and @taronlissimore and there was some discussion about this amp (starts 1:38:15):

Some paraphrasing:

The Mogwai OG has been out a long time and is a really good amplifier, but for the headphones community it had some features that didn’t make sense.

What you’re getting is the best ideas of the Mogwai in a more mature form factor.

With this new amp, the chassy is actually bigger than a Mogwai OG. The reason for that is to make it feel less pressured and more thoughtful.

There are no speaker taps. Everything has more space between components. The RCAs are further in the back and more separated from the headphone jacks and power cable. There’s better support for larger interconnects and power cables. There is more distance between the first input tube and the volume pot. It doesn’t feel cluttered. It feels like a more mature distillation of the Mogwai.

It has chunky feet so you can run cables under the amplifier. It’s been color matched to the Sennheiser HD 800 s. (matte black)

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Hey everyone

I’ll work to get specs up this week. Prob mid week, I’ll re bench. Performance and noise wise it’s very similar to a mogwai og.

~ 3watts with 6l6gc
~ 5watts with kt88s

Though there is a higher noise floor with the 300ohm output but impedance is magic with 300ohm headphones too. I was listening last night to my hd800s and zmf verite.

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Forge Specs with JJ KT88s

Input Sensitivity 1.6v P-P

Max Power Hi Z (300ohm) 4Watts
Max Power LoZ (32ohms) 4.5watts
Noise HiZ 680uv RMS
Noise LoZ 460uv RMS

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That is some serious power


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Just ordered the 32/300ohm version. Full report inbound when it arrives, which will probably be soon because headphones.com is the fastest shipper in the entire world. :grin:

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My fellow headphone listeners
 it has arrived. Tomorrow begins with Reprise by Moby, followed by Orphée by Jóhann Jóhannsson, followed by How We Intended by Marlon Craft.

I will then eat lunch, drink coffee, swing a kettlebell, and resume with Joker by Hildur GuĂ°nadĂłttir.

Thank you and goodnight. :crescent_moon:

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I have just returned from 5 days inside the listening laboratory with the FORGE and am putting together the preliminary observations as I write this. I’m leaving the lab in a mess. Post-it notes, illustrations, and pages of descriptive analogies, metaphors, and similitudes litter the walls and floor. My mind and desk are still digesting the experience. I may never fully collate the data, but as I sit here now, I am drawn to the final entry in the lab notebook:

21/06/23 03:16 – It is good. The FORGE is good. Do not return. No burn-in required.

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21/06/18 17:05 – To begin the experiment, and with complete disregard for the manual, I am applying power to the FORGE without a source connected.

The sound of the FORGE begins with the source. It was observed that, without a source, the FORGE is nothing more than an inefficient desk lamp with dangerous heat properties. Any attempt to use the FORGE as a reading lamp resulted in either burned hands or burned reading material.

The source chain went through two phases, the only change being the DAC.

It was never my intention to listen with the QUTEST, but the TT2 blew up into white smoke a few weeks ago and arrived back from repair 2 days into the listening experience. The QUTEST and TT2 sound similiar, with a slight edge in pleasure coming from the TT2. The TT2 also runs with mild crossfeed, which changes the sound even more and is the reason I prefer it to the QUTEST.

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21/06/19 08:10 – Ignoring fears of being judged for music selection, below is a record of all albums experienced with the FORGE.

21/06/19 13:04 – Halfway through “Til the Casket Drops” and would prefer to stop the album and move on, but I will continue to observe all albums from beginning-to-end to preserve the artist’s vision.

Unfortunately some records from the listening experience were lost do to fire when attempting to use the FORGE as a desk lamp, but described below are the albums recorded in the laboratory notebook in reverse chronological order.

These albums were experienced from beginning-to-end and streamed from either Qobuz or local lossless music files. This diverse music catalog was largely recommended by Roon based on the music preferences of the average audiophile combined with the average human who enjoys real music.

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21/06/22 22:52 – Wow. I have a headache, but the good kind. My head hurts with pleasure. The volume knob has landed in the 8’oclock position.

21/06/22 23:22 – The RAD-0 sounds best on the 32ohm tap. I have tried both and the answer is so clear that I will not be attempting a second time.

The listening laboratory has one set of headphones, the Rosson Audio RAD-0. This headphone has an output impedance of around 29-30ohms according the review on headphones.com. In order to diversify the listening experience, we’ve also ordered a ZMF Verite Closed, but I don’t expect to receive those until the FORGE v3 is released.

The FORGE amplifier has two headphone outputs, rated 32ohm/300ohm on our model. After early measurements with my ears, the 32ohm output was a clear match. All critical listening that followed was performed on the 32ohm output. There will be no further use of the 300ohm output until the ZMF arrives.

The sound from the RAD-0 and FORGE can be summarized as “very good” and “more enjoyable than the TT2 alone”. The most notable entries in the log are below:

21/06/20 12:38 – In an attempt to decrease ear fatigue, I just returned from a trip to the dog park. The sounds of animals fighting and children playing pales in comparison to the sound coming from this amplifier. The children are loud, harsh, and much more fatiguing to my ears. The FORGE, in comparison, is surreal, warm, friendly, and satisfying.

21/06/20 16:40 – Well, this entire album, I’ve switched between the TT2 output and FORGE output and I clearly prefer the FORGE. I wouldn’t describe the sound as more detailed or more accurate
 if anything it’s probably the same in those regards. The music just sounds “bigger”. Even with crossfeed enabled, the image in my mind is larger on the FORGE.

21/06/21 09:04 – I accidentally forgot to hit play and I’m sitting here listening to silence. I thought something was broken, but it was just a mistake. While trying to find the music, I slowly increased the volume knob to the max and, to my surprise, there is zero noise floor.

For those wanting additional objective measurements, we can turn to the graph below. Over the course of this 5-day experiment, I was able to record the average smiles per minute. This is called the “Enjoyment Response” and is presented in units of Sm/Mi (smiles per minute).

You’ll notice this graph actually contains 6-days of data because I’ve included today as well for an additional data point. To collect this data, facial expressions were recorded by the Logitech Brio 4k Webcam and analyzed by Amazon Mechanical Turk. All facial expressions that were at least 80% “smile shaped” are included in the results. It’s worth noting that peak Sm/Mi was almost 200, far surpassing any other amplifier in the listening laboratory. The video footage recorded during this part of the experiment almost looks like a medical emergency, but in reality I believe it to be true happiness.

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I found this experiment enjoyable and useful and plan to continue. As I collect more experience with the FORGE amplifier, I will return with any additional findings. In the coming weeks and months I expect to experiment with the ZMF Verite Closed and make comparisons with the ampsandsound Nautilus amplifier.

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Excellent writeup @huntca and very thorough indeed. Great stuff.

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Has anyone done an official side by side comparison of the Forge (100ohm) and the Pendent?
Looked around a bit and I am just curious to see what people are saying, but was unable to find anything.

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I don’t believe so yet, but the Forge has only been out for like a weekish/2weeks. I would imagine that there will be more impressions up in the coming weeks/months. Always hard to find these comparisons, but a good person to ask would be Justin from A&S, or @TylersEclectic as I believe he has heard both.

Another is people who have heard the original Mogwai vs the Pendent might be able to answer as from what I have heard the Forge is essentially an upgraded Mogwai, so would follow the same initial principles of its sound.

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Check out @MRHifiReviews’s reviews of the Pendant and Mogwai OG: https://www.youtube.com/user/MarcelloRostagni/videos. The Forge succeeds the Mogwai OG similar to what @dncnexus said.

I compared the Pendant OG (borrowed) to Mogwai SE (owned) using a variety of cans. The latter has larger transformers and a more substantial tube complement. While not a fair fight, I did prefer the tonal density, authority, and balanced and extended frequency response of the Mogwai SE. The neutrality of the Pendant OG can make it a suitable match for ZMFs, not to mention its lower power output that may be less prone to noise/hum when paired with high sensitivity headphones especially more revealing ones with Beryllium drivers. The Pendant has preamp outs. The Mogwai OG and SE have speaker outs, while the Forge can be connected to speakers from the headphone outs. The Pendant is tube rectified while the Forge is solid state rectified.

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Thanks! That actually answers a lot of questions I was trying to find, especially the preamp/speaker output on the amps.
I also didn’t even realize that forge was SS rectified. That is really interesting!

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You’re welcome, glad you found it helpful! The differences between the A&S amps/builds aren’t always easily apparent, but do make sense once sorting through.

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Hey guys!
Anyone knows the dimensions of the Forge?
Thanks in advance!

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I’m not certain, but it might have the same dimensions as the Mogwai SE.

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Thanks! Will check that out

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Brilliant, most fun read of the day
.maybe the month.

My personal Sm/Mi reader shot up at the beginning, faded a bit (around the 3kh mark) at the idea of even questioning the full Til the Casket Drops album, only to rocket upward again into the end of the article into the lofty zones of strong enjoyment of not actual mirth.

Kudos, huntca.

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Would love to see a comparison of the Forge vs something like the Bottlehead Mainline. Those Jupiter caps seem to make whatever amp they’re in very detailed but I plan on using vCAP ODams on my Mainline.

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While I can’t provide you a comparison having a custom Mogwai OG made before the production of the Forge with similar specs to it I can confirm you that Auricaps positively affect the detail, without being unpleasant or sounding unnatural.

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