Haha I’m sure of that and that’s fine, I’m not trying to offend anyone with that statement and if I won the lottery tomorrow then the Abyss and DAVE might just be what I would get! 
There are certainly significant differences between lower-end and higher-end headphones, however, the improvements in sound quality are never linear with the increase in price! There are several high-value products out there that get you so very close (IMO) for very little cash comparatively!
I hope it’s a big lottery. I think I’d want a different house - one that will let me have a few music-enabled rooms and enough space that the neighbors won’t complain. One of those rooms might have some Wilson DAW speakers, or perhaps Magico M3’s. Another area might have a Magnepan 30.7 or something big and electrostatic.
Then later, I’d figure out what headphones I wanted. But this is only a 95% solution thread. So I’ll leave out discussion of the pool and scenery.
I continue to hunt for a best quality, lowest cost system. This is for the challenge and to make the hobby accessible to more people. I’m now using this as my secondary system, and can honestly say I can listen all day without complaint. If I hadn’t heard better hardware I wouldn’t know what I’m missing, and likely wouldn’t care. [But I have heard better, and I do care.]
“Point of diminishing returns” system 2021:
Sennheiser HD-600 ($300 to $400; HD-6XX is $220)
Balanced headphone cable with XLR-4 connector ($25 to $50)
Loxjie P20 amplifier ($99)
ZenDAC V1 DAC ($129; ZenDAC V2 costs $159)
Optional (for small but real gains):
Tube swap ($15 to $30 for a set) – fuller, cleaner, richer sound
Upgraded amp power supply ($15) – slightly improved stability and clarity
Add any DAC power supply ($15, not included) – slightly improved punch and clarity
Add an 4.4mm to XLR interconnect ($22) – slightly reduces headphone hiss and resonance
Notes:
To my ears the HD-600 is naturally bright and noise or hiss prone. As such, the Burr-Brown chipset in the ZenDAC rolls off the treble but there’s still enough for a neutral delivery. Unfortunately the ZenDAC went from $129 to $159 and the cost bump won’t be hearable on this system.
The ZenDAC has all-in-one features, including an amp and bass boost. However, it rolls off the treble and produces shallow bass. The P20 is better, and any other dedicated amp will likely be better. One might start with the ZenDAC to save some money and learn too.
This is really interesting, and aligns with my own experience attempting somewhat less scientifically robust blind A/B testing (no X) using a switch box over the last few weeks. Where I differ is that I haven’t trained my ears/brain enough to be able to distinguish at all at this point, but I’m completely open to the possibility/certainty that there are differences that I can’t consciously pinpoint, and which others are far better able to identify than I am.
Do you think it’s too much of an unscientific fudge to say that although I can’t consciously identify differences, I’m sure I can still perceive them at some level over extended listening sessions, and this (along with other variables: aesthetics, ergonomics, price, etc.) has contributed to my preference for certain DACs and amps over others?
Moving to this thread [moderator: suggested topic for several What’s in the Box posts].
@andris: Some time ago @pennstac created this thread and I’ve posted my comments above. I still recommend the iFi ZenDAC as a solid and versatile starter product for most users (~$150). Its Burr-Brown chip isn’t bright/whiny like many others in this bracket. Unfortunately, its bass boost is tuned for the HD-600 rather than the 6XX and the amp portion isn’t strong enough to generate actual deep bass. Still, some newbies either don’t care about bass or want boomy bass…so…
Per my comments two posts up, one could pair the ZenDAC with almost any $100 amp for a notable improvement. That could be a Magni, JDS Atom, Topping, etc. I personally recommend a separate amp rather than a higher priced all-in-one. This is because newbies often bounce around trying many similarly priced and similar quality budget side-grades. Regardless of what amp they settle on, the ZenDAC retains its value as an easy-on-the-ears (non-shrill) balanced DAC and preamp.
[If you go down the tube amp path, the $99 Loxjie P20 with about $50 in upgrades is quite good with the 600/6XX. It reaches its potential with a pair (recently $30) of 6N3P-DR tubes. For genuine OTL functionality despite many flaws, the DarkVoice 336 at $250 to $300 sounds reasonably good at the entry price point.]
Haaaaaaaa 
This is more of a curiosity purchase / demo item for helping me lure people to the hobby. When friends listen the Utopia driven by a rack’s worth of audio equipment, everybody is impressed, but also incredibly intimidated. I want to also have a headphone / DAC-amp pairing on hand that is obviously better than a “high-end” bluetooth/ANC headphone (e.g. Bose 700 or Sony WH-1000XM4), but also sub-$1K, so I can easily say “you too can have better sound without spending a fortune”. I feel like a 6XX / Mojo should be perfect for that job.
You want your friends to be able to eat? How selfish of you, LOL.
I try to remain conscious of this too (many of my posts pertain to the $99 Loxjie P20 and the $300 HD 600). If everyone active in the hobby focuses only on maximum quality items, the hobby loses touch with the fresh blood and its own growth tree. The pool of hardcore buyers shrinks to a relative handful of people, and the industry shrinks to fewer vendors with fewer good products.
Three words for the 6xx: OTL tube amp.
The 6XX will likely sound fine to novices on any modest amp, but both the 600 and 6XX scale or can be substantially re-voiced with a different amp/DAC.
Yeah, I can tell it sounds better on tubes, but I also want to keep newbies away from tubes entirely. I still remember how insanely intimidating tubes seemed to me when I first dipped my toe into that world, and I was at least somewhat into the hobby already. I basically want a (used) Mojo + some headphone to be an under $1K combo. Like, if you had a $1k budget, and you need headphone, amp, and dac to get the best sound for the least hassle possible, what would you buy? I thought about the Hifiman Sundara, too. I’m open to other suggestions. We’re also probably very off-topic for this thread at this point. Sorry.
HD600, 6XX or Sundara. If using the Sundara, I’d probably get a JDS Element III and call it done, but the Sennys do love tube flavor; maybe an “affordable” hybrid for them….
I agree that the tube rabbit hole isn’t recommended for beginners.
Interesting thread. I use the SPL Phonitor se (solid state) to power the HD6XX. Very musical and precise. How far these headphones can go using superior gear? That’s the question… before spending thousands on top models! In any audio system, the amplifier is the heart, the control center : a better amp will produce a better sound ( other things being equal). No, the HD6XX will not sound like the Focal Clear but the result is impressive nonetheless. ($220. USD !)
That’s not an easy question,(and possibly worth its own topic/thread) but I’d go for a Grado RS1e with Beautiful Sound pads and NO DAC or amp. Possibly a DFB, DFR, DFC, or similar minimal USB DAC. Yes, I’m gumming up the discussion with a reply. Also there are new pad alternatives that I haven’t heard. But having said Grado AND a 6XX, I can say without question that the Grado sound (for that particular Grado combination) a good cut or two above the 6xx in almost every way.
Even with the 6XX driven by a BF2/LYR3 combination. Soundstage is wider. Bass is present and deep but not bloated, and the infamous Grado high has been tamed, and trust me, taming the high is easier than lifting the Sennheiser midrange veil without playing with EQ. The Grado is easy to drive, and while it benefits from a decent DAC, it does not exhibit the scaling that a 6xx is known for.
Y’all know that I have never heard the Utopia, and can’t speak to true TOTL headphones, but my ears aren’t damaged and the cerebral cortex is still firing enough to express a valid opinion. Yes, I listen to the Grado a lot when traveling (also the Audeze LCDi3). I listen to it at home mostly when I’m not at my listening station, where I go for the Nectar Hive eStat (Getting some good comment in the Hive thread), the Hifiman HE-560, or for listening to Disney+ Star Wars, the aforementioned stack with the 6XX, that somehow seems to be made for Boba Fett.
I have moved the posts here. I’m afraid that there is no way to move them to before your post, at least as far as I am aware.
That’s okay. We will survive! @pennstac created a very logical thread here a couple years ago, but it tends to be forgotten.
That’s how we answer and flex at the same time! Bravo
I, on the other hand, kind of only dove into HiFi rabbit hole BECAUSE OF tubes. When I first decided to dig into what was out there, I was mostly interested in the usual suspects - HD6XX, Elex, Sundara, etc. It wasn’t until I learned about tubes that my naturally curious mind decided I had to know what they were all about. I kinda assumed even an expensive solid state amp would only be marginally different than a $10 dongle, if at all, but a tube amp? That’s something entirely new and different, and that sounds right up my alley. That HAD TO BE worth going all the way down the rabbit hole for.
And that pretty much brings us up to date. 
Interesting take. I had never thought of it from that angle. I guess I always viewed (and still view) lower cost tubes as being a novelty, but actually a downgrade from similarly priced solid state options. I suppose the difference in sound is obvious, but if one is seeking a higher-end sound - at least in terms of detail, control, noise floor - I’ve always found tubes to hurt more than they help until you’re into the four figures on amplification alone, at which point you can start to get the holography and staging without sacrificing quality. I guess the personal taste caveat applies here, and my bias against “ooey gooey tube” sound is showing clearly.
Anyway, maybe I should give some of these lower cost tube options more of a chance, as they certainly “bring down” a Utopia, but that may not be as true for something like a 6XX, which isn’t exactly a detail king anyway.
Dude! The HD 600 and 650 (6XX) were state of the art headphones just 20 years ago. The Bottlehead Crack kit (currently ~$300 to $450) is likely the most influential if not best selling headphone tube amp of all time. The sub-$300 Darkvoice 336 (and also LIttle Dot) has also long been a standard for those moving into headphones as a more serious hobby.
Not everyone has the money for $1K+ products, nor do they have particularly good or trained hearing, nor do they have the ability/desire to put their money into an audio hobby. Every hobby has starter kits that sell for 10% or even 1% of what hardcore fans happily spend. This applies to cars, motorcycles, boats, bicycles, watches, knives, musical instruments, etc., etc., etc. Some are fully happy with basic/inferior stuff while others aspire to more, but few will ever have a Ferrari or Bugatti. Middle-school children might save their money for a $35 Porta Pro, while college students may use a student loan for a 6XX, and the parent of 4 children may struggle to justify buying either one and stick with the IEMs bundled with their phone.
The 6XX has limited details (in my experience the 600 and Beyer DT 880 are both more detailed at this price point), but it’s surely the best set of headphones that many people will ever hear in their lifetimes. Drop has sold 153.6K 6XXs (March 27, 2022), but only 4.5K of the $700 Elex. The total Utopia sales may be in sub 5,000 or 10,000 unit ballpark…or sub 1,000 for all I know.
I can say from a lot of conscious exploration of “what you get for your money,” that $100 to $500 tube amps often deliver a far better experience than similarly priced solid state amps. Low end SS is no walk in the park, particularly if driven by a bright and edgy $100 ESS or Cirrus Logic DAC. Inexpensive SS amps themselves are often bright, harsh, hissy, and glary, so the less technical character of any tube amp makes a marginal, compromised setup more bearable.
Don’t focus on or expect serious holography and staging in this price bracket, worry about unbearable shrillness, edginess, and hiss. You may just get a hint of what lies beyond, but it’s better than the alternatives.
Have you listened to any of the ESS units that have corrected the original implementation issues?
