Alongside the secret menu items “animal style” or “4x4” or “Neapolitan shake.” Those in California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Texas, and Oregon may be familiar with these. 
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dont want grilled onions with my BE2 pads, but i’ll take it on my burger 
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Do you ever feel overwhelmed when you have too much new stuff to try out?
I was really excited that my Verite was burned in and I was going to compare the Universe lambskin and BE2 suede pads. And then my Pendant arrived yesterday, along with Verite lambskin and BE2 lambskin pads, and I’m obviously putting the pad-rolling on hold while I play with the new amp.
LOL, it’s a nice problem to have, but now I feel some sympathy towards those of you that have new equipment constantly arriving.
Speaking of pads, does anyone know how I can tell the difference between Verite and BE2 pads? I can’t find any labels on them. Zach emailed me that the labels are in the underside of the attachment ring on the back but I don’t see anything. I’m just waiting for one of our cats to get into the pads and mix them all up. 
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Oh man, the struggle, both regarding feeling overwhelmed and ZMF pad confusion.
For the latter, I’ve found that matching to the pictures on the website (e.g., Eikon is round, Auteur is oval) and taking into account the pad thickness and size specs helpful. I defer to others on Verite specific things.
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In keeping with discussions of where to actually find the BE2 pads I will put forth my thoughts on them in lamb skin form.
To my ears these are very similar in tonality to the V pads. There may be some subtle differences but I’m surprised at the how close they are in this regard. I accept there may be differences I’m not picking up simply based on the music I’m playing. This is just my impression, not a complete FR breakdown.
The BE2 pads regain some of the Uni pad holography. The Uni pads still feel like a level above stage wise.
The BE2 is also more clean in comparison to the Uni pad - less reverb. This may or may not be an advantage. The BE pads while having better extension in the lower registers do not have the elevated mids of the Uni pads so more bass doesn’t portend a warmer listen. Add the reverberant qualities of the Uni pads and I found a higher tendency towards a euphonic experience with the Uni pads. You give up some upper FR recession for that though.
No huge technicality differences between it and the V pads.
So to me the BE2 sound like V pads with a bit of extra staging. I wouldn’t classify them as a halfway point between the V and Uni pads. If anything they cheat more towards the V pads.
If the VO was my main or only can I would probably flip back and forth between the BE and Uni pads often. However, with a Utopia in my rotation I prefer the contrast that the Uni pads provide. I’m fairly surprised at the differences between the V/BE2 pads and the Uni pads. Pad switching the Auteur with the supplied pads was less stark a contrast.
Just my thoughts.
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The Verite pads are uniformly flat. My BE2 pads have a label and should be same vintage as yours. It’s tucked inside the part of the pad that you fit around the wood cup. You may be able to see a seam where it is.
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Thanks so much, that solved it. Yes, when I looked at the back of the pad, and ran my finger under the bit where the leather overlaps with the foam, I found a little sticker.
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They keep the be2 pad in the verite pad option. click onn the drop box and the be2 are there.
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I do know what it is like to have too much stuff to try… I think @resolve @antdroid @Precogvision @Chrono know these feels all to well… as well lol. In fact I just got a box full of IEMs from Precog that I need to do Unboxings for and pictures… and then see if Antdroid wants any to try ha… then maybe do a live stream impressions for some of them. But, yeah I think it is a “fun” problem to have =)
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Interesting, if I had VO, I could see myself making the same selections as you based on your impressions and my understanding of each pads’ sonics. The Uni seem pretty spot on for me as a regular go-to, and that the added distance from the ear is favorable - similar to the Auteur pads with my Eikon compared to the Eikon pads. I wonder how the V pads would do even with your warmest tubes – unlikely to make a material difference but for science.
That being said, I’ve gone back to the stock Eikon lambskin pads recently and they sound pretty dialed in and just proper. While not my regular and favorite, I could see how Zach selected it as stock and gives me further confidence in Zach’s tuning and selections.
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the VO and Utopia need to get together and have a couple of kids!
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I’ve come across this review that tells you if it’ll be a boy or girl. I kid, but an informative review with a Utopia comparison nonetheless.
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Interesting. I read that review just now with a focus on the VO v U content. Not sure I agree with the findings.
Maybe I’ll play around a bit and write my own comparison or see if the author is in fact correct upon further study.
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Some of his impressions were unexpected based on my understanding of how they compare. It would be good to get your thoughts and a refresh of your U review and Auteur comparison if I recall.
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Unfortunately my Auteur is seahorsed at the moment. Not sure if there is still a place for it in my complement.
The Auteur does have some nice qualities but I’ve grown accustomed to what I’m getting out of the U and VO. Hard to go back to it.
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Oh I see. I’d probably do the same given what the VO and U offer and achieved performance.
My only comment from a theoretical perspective only is whether the Auteur’s biocellulose driver offers something different and a worthwhile enough alternative for certain moods or music.
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Maybe in regards to timbre and perhaps a more neutral tonality but what the hell is neutral anyway?
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Yeah, neutral tonality is very relative. Maybe timbre and “resolution vs forgiveness spectrum.” I’m still exploring and evaluating.
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Mostly because I get bored at night and find writing relaxing Ive decided to put forth some effort and create a bit more of a detailed review of my thoughts regarding the Verite Open with a focus on comparing it to the Focal Utopia. I have also decided to expand the comparison to include all the typical VO pads. By way of warning this will be a long, long post.
Preamble:
VO is camphor burl and all pads, Verite (V), BE2, and Universe (Uni) are perforated lambskin. Utopia is stock outside of aftermarket cable that came with when purchased as a used item.
For those that dont already know my audio chain it is high resolution files through a Schiit Bifrost 2 using a DNA Starlett as amp. VO is running SE, Utopia running XLR simply to facilitate easier A/B comparison. The XLR output on the Starlett is being used SE. Zout for the VO is 120 ohms and 9 for the Utopia. Both sound good from these respective outputs. Both have had adequate burn in. No EQ was harmed in the making of this review as none was used.
Listening preference is mostly classical music of various genres but I do branch out at times. I am not treble sensitive (I like sparkle and air), am not a basshead (will generally prefer quality over quantity for the most part). For me mids are something that seem to exist simply to tie the ends of the FR together so unless there is obvious recession or peak I adjust to whatever Im presented.
I should also point out I dont listen to much of anything with vocals anymore so those hoping for some light to be shed on that area are essentially screwed. Moreover, if you take anything I write as authoritative on any of this subject matter there is little I can do to help you. Even though I think my critical listening skills have improved markedly over the last while there is always room for improvement.
Amble:
As most of us know, both of these headphones are current flagships for their respective brands and probably deserve to be. They are also fairly different. As I have stated before, some have described the VO as a warm Utopia, this is nonsense. What similarities there are are more related to the fact that top of the line cans tend to have similar characteristics that are inherent to TOTL gear. Outside of that I find these two to be more complementary than similar, one does not necessarily replace the other unless you have a definitive sound you are looking for.
*EDIT: After the suggestion from @zach915m I tried the 9 ohm Zout (3 just didnt sound right to me) on the Starlett and it makes the results of my comparison a bit more interesting. So please keep that in mind when reading the comparison. There is a definitive improvement in clarity and speed at this Zout compared to the 120 ohm used in the review below. I re-listened with only the Uni pads (my favourites) and did some quick A/B tests with the Utopia. *
***I dont think this would change anything regarding the pad comparison. This does, from a pure technicality point of view, bring the Verite closer to the Utopia. *
*The improvements: Slightly greater punch with an improvement in overall macrodynamics, blacker background, enhanced clarity with concomitant enhancement in detail retrieval. Imaging precision is also improved. No real loss of Verite tonality, at least not on the Starlett. Speed/transients are noticeably improved. *
The only loss is a reduction in what I would call atmospheric warmth on some tracks, it’s mild but noticeable and may effect the sense of euphony with some tracks.
I cant say there would be any change in how I view the two cans as A/B. The change in Zout does not allow the Verite to overtake the Utopia in any area where I found the Utopia to be higher performing, but it is a hell of a lot bloody closer.
This was a nice surprise and thankfully Zach reached out with a good suggestion. End EDIT
Tonality :
The tonality on the VO will sound warm, not because of any bass shelf but simply because there is some recession in the mids to treble. The Utopia is something I would consider a lot more balanced across the spectrum. The extreme ends of the Utopian FR stand out for various reasons which will be referenced below.
V pads: the most balanced/neutral pad for the VO. The most pleasant treble response to my ears with some air and sparkle. Most anemic bass out of the 3 VO pads tested.
BE2 pads: More of a clockwise shift in comparison to the V pads. Treble response still maintains a similar performance but the bass response is more emphasized and extends a bit deeper.
Uni pads: Warmest pad. Upper register is the most recessed with this pad. Less bass than the BE2 pad but nevertheless sounds the warmest, I think this may be due to resonance and staging factors associated with the Uni pad.
Utopia comparison: Even the most neutral of the VO pads, the Verite pads, do not have the extension in the highs that the Utopia has. The Utopia bass emphasis is slightly less than with the BE2 pad, which is by sheer quantity the most bass happy of the pads. As you move from the V to BE2 to Uni pads the mid to treble recession becomes even more pronounced in comparison to the Utopia based on what I am listening for. While some of the pads resemble the Utopia’s bass response from a pure quantity standpoint, none of the pads come close to matching the Utopia’s abilities above that region.
Both cans be be peaky at times in the treble region. I didnt find any one VO pad to be across the board better than the other in this regard. The Utopia would be the FR more associated with the negative aspects of treble response such as overly sharp, edgy or too bright.
Mid response is generally more preferable for me on the Utopia, again it sounds more balanced, whereas the mids sound recessed in comparison with all the VO pads. As I said before Im not a mid fanatic so keep that in mind.
Overall bass response is interesting. The V pad has noticeably less bass than the Utopia, the BE2 has more quantity than the Utopia. The Uni pads are just warmer in general but Im not convinced there is more bass quantity there. Bass response for the VO is what I would call bloomy or atmospheric, but for the most part it is tastefully done. The Utopia’s bass is controlled and tight. The Utopia also outdoes all the VO pads on bass texture and nuance.
Timbre:
I dont fully buy in to the metallic timbre associated with the Utopia. Ive listened for it but cant agree that it’s an issue. This is supposition: I suspect this is more associated with people interpreting bright as metallic but, I wouldnt argue against the metallic interpretation either. Simply put, to my ears the Utopia timbre is good; however, the Verite timbre is the more natural sounding to my ears. I also find it to be more consistent across instruments as compared to the Utopia, at least according to what I have been listening to recently.
Stringed instruments and pianos are handled particularly well. The Utopia can sometimes have string instruments sounding off but piano pieces present quite nice. Instruments with frequency responses up in the clouds is going to be very much a personal preference re timbre for the Utopia.
For what little vocals I did listen to I find both cans to sound fine. If I listen very closely I may suggest the Utopia vocals sound a touch plastic or artificial. Vocals for the VO are more natural but are not as forward as in the Utopia. My preference would be for the VO timbre with Utopia presentation. I pick up on the vocal recession wth the VO more than the slightly off sounding Utopia vocals.
For percussion instruments I would place the edge with the Utopia for reasons I will get too below.
Detail Retrieval:
For absolute detail retrieval and clarity the Utopia is a level above. I dont think it’s that close either and maybe Ive become a detail snob. Verite isnt that bad for this it’s just that detail is what the Utopia does.
Some may try to attribute this difference in detail retrieval to frequency related enhancement owing to the Utopia treble response; however, I hear it across the FR. More textural nuance and micro detail with the Utopia than the Verite as well.
The VO pad that is closest to the Utopia in perceived detail is likely the V pad. However, in this case I think this really is more related to frequency related factors (more apparent treble) than a true step up in detail since I dont hear much improvement in bass related detail with the V pad. Clarity and detail may suffer a bit with the BE2 and Uni pad simply due to bass performance (bloom) and resonance factors. Overall the VO sounds veiled or hazy in comparison to the Utopia. Being able to rapidly A/B the two cans reveals this easily.
Detail retrieval can be a curse. Fatigue may be more likely with the Utopia. Picking up extraneous noise, hiss, distortion are all more likely with the Utopia. The Utopia is more sensitive to garbage recordings for the most part. The only caveat being recordings that already sound a bit recessed in areas may sound even more so with the VO while the Utopia may handle this a bit better. However a recording with such recession will also likely have other issues that the Utopia will snarl at. Pick your poison here.
Speed and Dynamics :
Speed: I dont feel that this area is a strength of mine from a critical listening standpoint but for completeness I will at least venture an opinion. I would gladly accept comments on this either agreeing with, refusing or attenuating my opinion.
So having said that let me begin with this: Utopia is faster. Notes are crisper and have more snap. The VO is pretty good in this dept but sounds slightly dull in comparison being a touch more rounded with the leading edge a little slurred. Again, quick A/B comparison makes this easier for me to appreciate it to the limit of what I can here.
Regarding VO pads and speed, for some reason I felt the BE2 pads performed better here but its really, really hard for me to place much stock in this as A/Bing pads is a pain in the ass. If this is true, and not just some perceptual bias brought on by multiple factors, then I am not sure why pads would help with this. I have thoughts but who doesnt?
Macrodynamics: So another caveat, the Starlett may not be the best amp to fully test macrodynamics as it isnt reknowned for having a lot of kick; however, outside of lacking a skull shaking kick its macrodynamics are good in my opinion.
Depending upon the pads used the macros are about even between the two but ultimately better with the Utopia. Whether it be punch/slam/kick or the ability to present sudden, brain awakening crests of music, it is superior to the VO across the FR.
The Utopia presents a deeper, blacker background which may give an edge in the dynamics since there is a greater range to operate from. Having a more balanced and forward FR also helps the dynamism of the Utopia as you can feel various hits from down low to up high. The recession of the VO with its more punchy pads places its dynamism more towards the lower end of the FR.
Considering punch and slam, the most anemic pads for the VO are the V pads with the best pads being the Uni. Whether this relates to the larger cavity size of the Uni pads, meaning more air is present to be pushed, is just a guess.
I tried to consider my perception of bass response as something different than actual slam or kick. It would be easy to cast an equivalence here and maybe it mostly holds true but with careful listening and focus I will not say that the more bassy VO pads are punchier than the Utopia. It’s closest with the Uni pads down low but it is still edged out by the Utopia.
Referring back to my comment about preferring percussion instruments on the Utopia, it is due to the edge it has in macrodynamics, balanced FR, detail and bass control that makes drum hits and cymbals something I fam more approving of with the Utopia
Microdynamics: I really liked how @generic classified volume gradients with his recent Utopia review and I think that presents an avenue to more easily put forth my perception of the microdynamics.
This was an intriguing one to consider. The Utopia is a much bigger detail monster than the VO but I dont think that translates to much better microdynamics. When we consider small changes in things like volume it is relative to what came before or after the point in time we are listening to. While the Utopia may be able to pull faint details that the VO cant, I still think the VO’s ability to present microdynamics is pretty close to the Utopia when we eliminate ultimate resolution from the equation.
Microdynamics is one of those audiophile realms that seems to be a bit hard to get a good feel for as I think this area is much more open to subjective perception than others. Maybe Im wrong!?!?
I didnt really do much comparison between pads here as I was mostly trying to come to terms with what I was hearing. There also seems to be a nice smoothness between volume transitions for both headphones.
Staging:
So the Starlett may not punch anyone in the face but it can thrown a stage so this was a fun activity to delve into.
V pads: Poorest stage. A little bit forward, a bit of depth. No holography as I define it (the sense of sound using a 3D space). Narrowest staging. Cohesion while panning is suspect - sounds will almost disappear in the middle while moving laterally between sides so not quite 3 blob staging.
BE2: Wider than the V pads and on par with the Utopia in this dimension. Better depth than the V pad and you also start to gain some sense of holography. Cohesion is improved over the V pads. Soundstage starts to move a bit backwards. Staging dimensions feel similar to the Utopia here. The Utopia is capable of a sense of 3D movement and space with the right track on the Starlett, which surprised me when I first heard it but I think the BE2 pad pulls ahead slightly on this front.
Uni pads: Best staging pads. Oddly this pad makes the listening experience feel like there is a lot more behind you than in front of you on occasion, which can take some getting used to. When you do it is immersive and atmospheric. Easy sense of holography and movement. Cohesion while panning is very good, just a little behind the Utopia. Stuff just floats around you. These feel like you are in a bubble of sound with the right tracks. This is the Verite experience that does it it for me.
I spend most of my time on the Verite with the Uni pads simply because of how engaging they feel.
Imaging:
No Verite pads touch the Utopia regarding the sheer precision of imaging. The V pads come the closest of all of them but those pads are hampered by their limited staging. Imaging improved with the BE2 and Uni pads simply because there is more space to allow instrument separation. However the images are still fuzzy in comparison to the Utopia.
Practically speaking though I didnt have much issue following instrument lines with either can. The V pad had the most trouble but still was serviceable.
With the Utopia its more easy to pick out distinct elements playing the same note or harmonizing. If 4 voices are singing all at once in harmony I can identify that it’s 4 voices with relative ease. The Verite is just not as distinctive.
Conclusion, Summary, Parting Thoughts:
First there are no prizes for having read this far. Second it may seem like I dumped on the VO in comparison to the Utopia and if someone were to tabulate the above categories one at a time then yes, the Utopia does have a lot more checkmarks beside it. However, it is what all these categories sum up to as a listening experience that is of paramount importance.
The VO can be engaging and atmospheric and warm. It will have less associated fatigue and will play better across more tracks of questionable provenance than the Utopia. You find the right recording and the Verite will just glow all around you in a way the Utopia simply cant.
The Utopia has it positives as well and going through this comparative exercise makes me appreciate the Utopia’s strengths even more. It’s a technical beast at a level above the Verite. I also suspect the Utopia has a higher ceiling than the Verite with more room for improvement with TOTL components above what I have. On the flip side, I do suspect the Verite would be less susceptible to the requirement for system synergy provided the components can properly handle its’ impedance.
As I stated somewhere above in a different post, if were to listen to the Verite exclusively I would likely switch between BE2 and Uni pads and seahorse the V pads. As it stands currently, the Uni pads provide me with the needed contrast to the Utopia so they will be my main pad on Verite for the foreseeable future.
These are extremely complementary headphones. I like them both and adjust to either sound signature quite easily when switching between them. If I had to be extremely honest and choose I would probably take the Utopia over the Verite but I would very much miss it. Currently I find my listening time is pretty evenly split between the two.
Of course, this is all personal preference. It may be a lot different if I had a different amp or DAC. Tonality preferences will also play a huge roll. Doesnt matter how technically capable the Utopia is if the treble just screeches at you.
EDIT: After using the 9 ohm Zout on the Starlett I am no longer sure I would favour the Utopia over the Verite. It really is a toss up now and it is awesome. Thanks again @zach915m for pointing out the Zout consideration. End EDIT.
Ultimately I wonder if this comparison was a waste of time as Im not sure sure if its reasonable to compare them. These cans are meant to do different things and I would bet came from different design philosophies, so maybe all the verbiage above was a silly exercise.
Anyways, apologies if needed. Hope you enjoyed if not.
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Well written my Canadian brother, you made a great case for each headphone and threw away the notion that one necessarily replaces the other.
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