That’s one of the more compact solutions I’ve seen. I hesitate per the feel and durability issues of 3D printed items, plus the “packing box” look. If only less edge overhang.
Looks like the Loki is getting an update or a totally new unit.
Loki “Max”, per the board legends.
Given the number of relays on that board, and that the remote looks like it has three “preset” (or saved) positions, makes me wonder if the thing isn’t going to be using relay-switched band control like the Saga, Freya and Ragnarok. That would make repeatability for stored settings something that was reliable vs. hoping for the best with using powered pots.
Balanced and SE in/out. LC, full analog, EQ.
That’s not going to be cheap (though knowing Schiit it’ll be something you can’t get elsewhere anyways and will still be much lower in price than anyone else would do it for). If they can do it for less than $1,500 I’d be very pleasantly surprised.
Yggdrasil A2/U into Freya, into that … and a couple of Vidar’s (or whatever) would be an incredibly potent and flexibility setup …
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They are talking 10x the price of a Loki…but this as always is not cast in concrete…
A.
“and yeah, those are relay potentiometers (very different than a relay ladder attenuator) and custom 80% nickel-core inductors.”…
"Nice Alps pots. Motor driven versions?
Yep! Though the pots aren’t part of the equation at all, the relays and resistors do the potentiometer action. That was a monumental pain in the rear end. For the technophiles, there are 15 positions on either side of center for you to use–and actually a true center, defined by 0.1% resistors, not a potentiometer.
And remote control. With 3 presets. Press preset button–clicky clacky clicky clacky and all the knobs spin. So at least in one way it will be better than the Audio Palette. Neat!
And, because we love you/I am insane, here’s a peek at Lokiest (whatever we call it, it won’t be that. At least I don’t think so.)
No, we won’t use those knobs. They will be proper machined knobs."
from Jason.
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Schiit entry level amp thoughts
First “review” be nice thank you.
I’m new to all of this, and to someone new to this hobby, reading a review and reading something like “the mids were more forward” or “it’s bright” about amp A or B doesn’t equate to “why do I want this?” or “is this good?” to someone just trying to take everything in in the world of audio. It takes time with equipment to get the experience to go from “do I want this/do I want to try this” to “why yes that sounds like it would match my preferences for an amp.” I’ve focused this on “why you may want try one of these amps” especially if you’re like me and relatively new to the hobby. These are 5 of the 6 main headphone amps Schiit currently has available under $200. I skipped the Magnius, I haven’t fallen into the balanced rabbit hole yet. The list includes the Asgard 2 which seems to forever be a b-stock mainstay. They are in order of preference thusfar.
Qobuz and a Bifrost 2 were used in this comparison. Headphones: Hifiman Ananda (high gain), HD6xx, and Elegia (low gain). No EQ.
First, measurements
Asgard 3
Why you want this: The best overall sound. It sounds more natural, fluid than the other amps here. Bass slam was best here. There’s a richness to the mids I like. Wide soundstage in this category, which on the Ananda can be overwhelming on a good mix with a wide soundstage like Second Hand News by Fleetwood Mac.
Why you may not want this: you have a Focal Elegia. I find the Asgard 3 highlights the wonkiness in the upper mids and lower treble in a way I can’t deal with. War on War by Wilco sounds out of balance to me (when the synth goes nuts from 0:20-0:35 or when Tweedy kicks in at 0:50 with the acoustic guitar). I’ve heard others - that’s the first example I came across for this write up. (I’ve tried with a Loki and am getting close, but it’s still wonky. The Wonky Loki would be a good band name.)
Vali 2+ (EH 6922)
Why you want this: Tubes. Power. Everything felt more “lush” than the Asgard 3, but I couldn’t tell you if I’m projecting since there’s a tube involved. There are times listening to it that I said, “that had more character with the Asgard 3.” I said that more times about the Asgard 3 though. The reverb in Blue Rider by Scott HIrsch was an example I said about the Vali 2+.
Why you may not want this: I…don’t know? Thusfar I prefer the Asgard 3, but I don’t know that this is too far behind. Playing with these 2 is going to be a delight. Sounds better with the Elegia than the Asgard 3 (Jeff Tweedy is still shouty on Jesus Etc. though).
Magni 3+
Why you may want this: Price. It’s got a lot of the things I like about the Asgard 3, but dialed down or muted. Dynamics and slam are a bit less. I don’t have the experience or words to put to why this is the case. It’s just less lively, there’s less color than the first two, OLED vs LED. That’s not to say it isn’t lively. That’s a problem I know I have reading reviews - amp A has less of something than amp B - well how much less? is that good or bad? It’s not bad, but I do think the Asgard 3 is more than 2x the Magni 3+. I don’t know if I prefer this or the Vali 2+ with the Elegia. I like both for different reasons, but the Magni 3+ is smoother and less risky with the Elegia. You and I by Caribou is an example that to me sounds more even and natural on the Magni 3+ than the Vali using the Elegia. See my above comment about Jesus Etc. I’m starting to wonder if tonality or lack of harshness is what matters most to me. I’m going to experiment here.
Why you may not want this: You’ve got one of the above. I think it’s worth trying the Vali 2+ or Asgard 3 over this myself factoring price in. The price difference isn’t that much more. The Magni 3+ is a good pick, isn’t fussy. It’s the Toyota Camry of amps, and I think people are gonna read that and laugh, but it is intended in as a high compliment. Maybe the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale of amps is better.
Asgard 2
Why you may want this: Price. Given that b-stock still has a bunch of these for $119, it should be considered an option still. You want to try a Class A amp. It’s richer in some ways than the Magni 3+. Like the Ananda 3, you can tell you’re stepping up from a “smaller amp” to a “bigger amp,” like going from a bmw 5 series from a 3 series. Not by Big Thief shows more color here than on the Magni 3+ on the ananda. So if you don’t have an Asgard 3 or Vali 2+ and want to try a bigger amp but want to spend less or don’t want to get into tube rolling because you know you have an obsessive personality (oh god what have I done), think about the Asgard 2.
Why you may not want this: This surprised me. I expected to pick this over the Magni 3+. It has that “bigger, fuller, richer sound” over the Magni 3+. But I felt the Magni 3+ had more control, had more detail. HD6xx is just as or slightly more veiled with the Asgard 2 than 3 - see Emmylou Harris - Goodbye. I guess I don’t have a good reason to use this amp regularly - which is a good amp - given the ones above. If I didn’t have an Asgard 3 or Vali 3+, would I want this over the Magni 3+? I dunno. Yeah the engine is bigger than the Magni 3+ but the suspension is looser and I have 2 options with a powerful engine and a better suspension that I like better.
Magni Heresy
Why you may want this: it’s…fine. It’s sharper, the sound is less natural. This is a good thing for some records. Post-punk like the recent remaster of Entertainment! by Gang of Four is acerbic and moreso with this amp, in a good way. Something like In Utero may sound best here.
Why you may not want this: It’s the least of all the amps in terms of overall sound, dynamics, and feel. Mine is gonna get sold.
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Great writeup that many should find helpful, especially the measurements. I agree with your perspective and desire for relevance and why. It’s sometimes not helpful when 3 pages communicate “it did its job and met expectations.”
I’ve heard all but the Vali 2+ and I generally agree with your impressions. You’re not projecting!
My favorite of “these” is the Vali 2, followed by the Asgard 3. It’s close. I’d probably choose the A3 or V2+ if I had to choose one. But I love the tone and distortion profile of the V2; I can see why some would choose the Asgard 2 for a similar reason.
The Heresy is a palate cleanser when one wants a dose of “the absence of color.”
Asgard 3 for Master of Puppets would be sublime.
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You sunnavabi… imperial always enrages me.
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The other side of the tape is metric, I can get that tomorrow.
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OK, that eases my mind, I can now transition from death metal to some adagios.
Loki Maximus, or Lokius? Loki+?
Also, I have a soft spot for Asgard 2 in the above post comparison (very informative by the way). You can get it “new” (NOS) on closeout in black for the $119 with 5 yr warranty, and it’s not B stock. It’s a pretty great price and I’d rather have it than the Magni, but mine wasn’t the 3+. I have Asgard 2 and Lyr 3, which is definitely better, but that class A goodness is still pretty sweet! Both are fed by a Bifrost 2.
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Thank you for the review, it is very helpful, I have been considering the Asgard 3 from sometime now, I think I am about to go for it, I currently have the Magni 3+, I mostly use iems (so I don’t bother family members - low price ones - P1 / Legacy 3 / Shuoer Tape, T4), I have some headphones, nothing fancy (HE4XX, Grado RS2e, AKG K712), would you think considering my arsenal (easy to drive phones) the Asgard 3 would be a good investment?
IMO yes. It’s an all around better amp. It sounds richer, fuller than the 3+. I don’t think I’ve used the Asgard with super sensitive IEMs. I grabbed my Moondrop Blessing 2 set and it’s at 10-12 on low gain and sounds great.
I mean, it’s a big sound upgrade for a unit that is $200, $100 more than the 3+. I think budget would have to be a significant factor to not consider the Asgard (or Vali) over the Magni. And the Magni is very good.
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Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
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If one will be using the SE outputs, which would be the best choice among the Schiit MultiBit DACs?
I’ve heard different opinions regarding this. Some say the Yggdrasil isn’t optimal in SE, even recommending the Bifrost over it. The same has also been said regarding the Gugnir vs. Bifrost; in SE Bifrost is “better”.
I’m curious what Schiit aficionados think as I’m considering one of the above.
I can say the A2 Yggy doesn’t suffer from bad SE outs like the Yggy GS / A1 reportedly did. Both balanced and SE outs work and sound excellent, and I was very hard pressed trying to distinguish the difference when I had both fed into the Freya S > some other amp, or both connected to the Jotunheim at the same time and was switching back and forth. To be clear, they sounded nearly identical, and anything that might have been a difference between these outputs were so slight, that cable, amp or preamp topology, other minute differences, or even placebo could easily have been attributed to the difference. I no longer worry about it.
I also had the leaner voiced Gungnir MB A2, and recall having no noticeable degradation of sound using SE outs there either, but that’s going on year old audio memory at this point.
BF2 compared to Gumby is an apples to oranges comparison due to the different voicing. BF2 to Yggy A2 is more appropriate, as they are voiced similarly, and yes the Yggy wins in just about every category of nuance (staging, detail retrieval, etc) that may matter… but enough so to justify the extra price? Hmmm… That’s the question, and it’s subjective. There is a reason many call the BF2 a mini-yggy. It has a few rougher edged corners to the sound in some areas, the Yggy seeming more smoothly “correct” in that regard, but it’s a very minor nit to pick.
In short - IMO, when it comes to any current gen Schiit DAC at the BF2 level or above, I wouldn’t worry about SE outputs one bit.
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Right on, thanks.
Bifrost sounds like even more of a bargain.
Not apples to apples, but this makes what Jason and Mike have made/assembled in the USA somewhat more impressive.
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Ooooh boy. I’m wondering if this is gonna be an unpopular opinion.
(whispers: the Lyr 3 is really good, but i would look at the used market if at all, it’s not worth $300 more than the Asgard 3 or Vali 2+ + a good tube under $25, and i would rather have both an Asgard 3 and a Vali 2+ to go back and forth with than a Lyr 3).
i mean, if you’re in the Cheap AF club like me, I have no complaints about Asgard 3 and/or Vali 2+ at this point. Bifrost 2 → those 2 amps → Ananda is good enough for me. I look forward to trying a ZMF or some other higher priced headphone, but damn, I’m gonna be really happy with this setup for a long time.
Loki is going to the 2nd setup with the HD6xx and Elegia.
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and you should be…your not missing out on lots of stuff!!
Nice looking stack!
Love Shiit stuff!
Alex
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