Schiit Audio - Official Thread

Headphones
840

Thanks for all the great discussion and advice!

As a long-time Schiit customer, I’m aware of the terrific value proposition across their lineup. (My first unit was a 1st gen Asgard, gosh, probably 10 years ago, now used by my son to drive a pair of HiFiMan HE 400s.) But most of my experience has been at the desktop level for near-field listening, with several generations of Magni/Modi stacks. The current search is my first foray into the mid to upper levels of the range.

I guess if there’s a consensus, it’s that the reach for the Bifrost 2 is worth the cost, then try to match an amp to it. (I love @Tchoupitoulas late-night suggestion to try out various combinations, then keeping what works best for me. I read that post about midnight my time, so appreciated the humor, unintended though it may have been!)

My inclinations are to go with multibit and the flexibility of having an amp with balanced outputs. I haven’t tried it yet, but, from what I’ve read, the Stellias really shine with the extra boost from balanced connections. One the other hand, I have no idea what the SQ advantage is of Unison USB. I’d appreciate hearing about that.

So maybe Bifrost 2 + Magnius?? Though that’s pushing the upper limits of my current budget…

The good news is that this is not an urgent quest, so I can be patient. I’m using the Stellias in my main listening room, where I’ve set up a comfy headphone station for late-night sessions or times when the house is noisy (we have an open floor plan, so sound isolation is nearly impossible). I’m currently driving the Stellias from the headphone amp of a Mytek Brooklyn DAC in my stereo rig, but that’s around 20 feet away from the headphone station. I’m using an old Sennheiser extension cable to connect the two, but it’s cumbersome and I’m not convinced that I’m getting the best SQ out of the Stellias this way.

I’ll keep an eye on this thread for further input and I’ll post as the journey unfolds. Thanks a lot for taking the time to chime in! – Bill

3 Likes
841

i’d look at the magnius only if you really need balanced. i haven’t heard the magnius but knowing what the asgard 3 and vali 2+ sound like, they’re going to be better overall

3 Likes
842

That’s a good position to be in - and if there’s no rush, you could opt for one component now, and get the best one you can afford, and then pick up the other at a later date.

I’ve only heard the Mytek Brooklyn in unfamiliar chains but my understanding is that it’s a fairly high-end unit. So you’ve already got what should be a highly competent DAC. As such, maybe the better investment now would be the amp?

Another way to view all this might be to identify the weakest link in your chain. If it’s the amp, upgrade that and then get the Bifrost 2 later?

For some, it’s the process that’s enjoyable as it means you get to hear a wide range of gear through incremental upgrades. For others, it’s more efficient to upgrade less frequently but to reach further with each step (and spending less in the long run, unless you go with used gear as @generic recommends - that’s what I do, fwiw). Personally, I enjoy the anticipation of upgrading and mulling over the options and seeing what people like, which is why not being in a rush is a treat.

3 Likes
843

Bitfrost 2 is a no brainer decision. It’s a very good piece of equipment at a good price. I don’t own it but it is a piece of equipment in the little audio store I work in the weekends and I’ve listened to it many times and I love its sound signature.
For the head amp:

  1. If you need a balance output the choice is according to me between Magnius and Jotunheim 2.
    If in dubt the Jotunheim 2 is a powerful monster that will last you years with no power issues with any headphone you plug in.
    If you have to reduce the budget then the Modius will be good enough too.
    I just prefer the sound signature from the Jotunheim but this is something in the very subjective area.

  2. If you don’t need the balance output then the Asgard 3 would be my choice and actually the one I’ve bought for myself after reading the great impressions from the community.
    Warm, pleasing sound signature and built like a tank.

I hope this can help.
Stay safe and enjoy.

4 Likes
844

I don’t think you need to worry about balanced amps with the Stellia. It’s very easy to drive, and I think it benefits from the quality of the amp, rather than the amount of power.

My chain is Bifrost 2 feeding Lyr 3 (single ended outputs), Pendant (SE), Jot 2 (SE or balanced), Burson Soloist 3XP (SE or balanced).

Pretty much any headphone sounds wonderful on the Pendant, but I also really like the Stellia/Lyr 3 combination for musicality at a much lower price. I’m going off memory here, but I also enjoyed the Stellia with the Asgard 3 when I tested it before Christmas.

Now if you happen to get an amp that has both SE and balanced outputs, then it might be that it was designed to sound different through balanced. The Jot 2 falls into that category, and I prefer the Stellia on the balanced outputs. With the Burson, I’m not sure if I prefer one over the other.

If you’re not in a hurry, then I’d recommend waiting until you can get a Bifrost 2 and Jot 2. As I said above, the Stellia sounds great on all the Schiit amps I’ve tried, but if you ever end up buying harder to drive headphones in the future, like ZMFs or 6XX, I prefer the Jot2 over the other Schiit amps.

6 Likes
845

Do you happen to have the links still? I’d like to know the context.

I don’t think it’s true that the Stellias sound better on every balanced amp than they do on every SE amp. Nor do I think that every balanced amp provides a ‘boost’ over every SE amp.

The headphone doesn’t know or care if the amp is balanced or SE. Two wires run to the left transducer and two wires run to the right transducer. That’s it, no electronic circuitry processing a ‘balanced’ connection.

I’m trying to say that your choice should be based on what sounds best, not on the type of circuit in the amp.

Of course, if you want balanced because it makes you happy and the sound is not the highest priority then buy a balanced amp.

6 Likes
846

Very well put.
If any boots maybe needed then probably a Lyr3 will add it with some coloration and warmth due to the hybrid tube design that won’t bring to distortion that may occur with pure tube amps.

847

Agreed, and in my experience at least, I haven’t found that the Stellia’s sound quality scales with more power like some other headphones do. It’s a fantastic-sounding headphone that reveals the quality of the amp, not the quantity of its power.

This probably depends on the tube, but I haven’t found the Lyr 3 to bring coloration or warmth (using Treasure Globe tube). I found the Asgard 3 to be warmer, and also the Jot 2 to a lesser extent. With the Treasure Globe, the Lyr 3 is pretty neutral, with no roll off in bass or treble, and I find that it has a lot of synergy with the Stellia. I can point out all kinds of things that my more expensive amps do better, but there’s something compelling about the Lyr 3-Stellia combination, and I often find myself coming back to it when listening for fun.

5 Likes
848

Welcome to the community @wkimbel

I am new here from this summer and an enthusiastic novice, but I will offer some observations.

  1. Search and read these forums. There is a lot of experience and technical expertise that can be helpful.
  2. Start with (Mis)Understanding USB Audio
  3. Also read Digital Interface Nervosa (USB, I2S, SPDIF, TOSLINK, AES, DDC, WTF, BBQ) - #6 by Torq
  4. @Torq has contributed a lot on subjects important to your decision, has immense knowledge, and has been kind enough to correct me more than once

Until recently my reference DAC/streamer was out on loan. By a series of coincidences and misguided impulsive purchasing (I need a breathalyzer on my computer before I click buy) I ended up with 3 budget DACs kicking around.

I am comparing the Modi 3+, Modi MB, EarMen Sparrow, Focusrite Scarlet, and of course my Matrix Audio Element X. The "budget DACs I have been comparing both into an Asgard 2 and amsandsound Ovation.

I intended to contribute something comprehensive for the community, but I have decided I will not because my subjective findings point to extremely subtle differences in these DACs that do not amount to substantive value for me. However, I do have some advice:

I have owned two Schiit amps with internal DACs, an original Jotunheim with AKM, and a Ragnarok with MB. I also owned a Modi AKM (before 3+) and a Vali 2 stack. The internal DACs all sound good, but whether it is internal noise from other power supplies etc or a USB issue, they both had a noise floor noticeable at a lower volume level than the external DACs do. This noise floor would disappear when I would unplug the USB cable, and re-appear when I plug it back in. The Modi 3+ does not do this. It is dead cold silent all the way to max. The external Modi MB is somewhere in between, less than the internal DACs but more than the 3+ with Unison USB.

It may be blissful ignorance on my part, but I think Unison USB is a really effective development for Schiit and I would encourage you to get a DAC with it if you are to stay with the Schiit brand, which as you can tell I like a lot.

There is a strong contingent here for the Bifrost 2. I can only think that the overwhelming consensus points to truth. I have not heard a Bifrost. But what I can say for myself is that the difference between the Modi3+ and the Modi MB is subtle, to me. The only things I can say with certainty is that the MB has grainier strings in orchestral recordings, as if you can hear rosin on the bows. The 3+ seems smoother and more like my Element X in this respect. Second, the MB has a more authentic sounding decay to acoustic sounds, again, like my Element X. Mind you, I have no way to A vs B these quickly. I have to move RCA cables and choose the DAC in the computer and start over. Also, the “noise” I mention in the MB and the internal DACs from earlier is at listening levels that would cut your listening life short by, any years. In normal listening, it is not noticeable.

I hear profound differences between different headphones.

I hear really important differences between amplifiers.

I hear DECISIVE differences with my favorite headphones through my tube amp that allow me to stop thinking about all of this stuff.

Between DACs I do not hear differences that would warrant investing heavily there until the cans and amps are sorted out.

To put it bluntly, into my amp and headphones, I get equal listening pleasure from the $99 Modi 3+ as I do my $3000 DAC/Streamer. No kidding. The Modi 3+ is an exceptionally capable little device. As is the MB. I suggest you go external though, rather than internal without Unison. Just my opinion.

Of course I am kicking myself for investing so much in my DAC before I had begun to arrive at the more important components.

I would suspect the Modius sounds a lot like the Modi 3+ out of its SE output, maybe even better balanced out. If you are not going to spend on a Bifrost, I am sure you will be very happy with it. But my current “bedroom” system is a $99 Modi 3+ and a $119 B stock Asgard 2 and I could not be happier!

Hope that helps a little bit.

13 Likes
849

Nothing wrong with the Modi 3 for sure…add a B-stock asgard 2 or magnius and be very happy.

850

Very thorough and helpful observations, Mark.

I might need a computer breathalyzer too!

That is key advice.

5 Likes
851

Thanks, @MokhaMark for that extensive advice, and to the rest of you as well for you’re helpful input.

This thread has already given me a lot to think about as I make my decision, and I’ll definitely report back.

This is what I’m hearing so far:

  1. Prioritize choosing the amp over the DAC, as the amp is likely to yield greater difference for a given set of headphones. Interestingly, this has not always been my experience with my main stereo rig; I have often noted greater differences in musical detail, instrument separation (I listen mostly to classical and acoustic jazz), soundstage, etc. with different DACs than with different amps. But I’m prepared to believe that this may not translate in a straightforward way to the headphone realm, at least with Schiit gear.

  2. Balanced vs. SE output is not the most important consideration in choosing an amp. For me, technology serves the music, rather than the other way around. So, I’m not wedded to any particular technology (e.g., balanced vs. SE), only to the most pleasing musical experience I can obtain within the limits of my budget.

  3. Schiit’s Unison USB interface may be something to consider in choosing a DAC (Bifrost 2 or Modi 3+).

The great thing about Schiit gear, as you all know, is that experimentation does not have to be a high-cost venture! And, the nature of the audiophile hobby is that one’s system is always in the state of “becoming,” rather than having arrived at some final place.

8 Likes
852

Hello,
Can anyone tell me if Schiit recent dacs and amps were improved in detail quality? I hear many things in records using $9 Apple dongle that I couldn’t hear with many schiit dac amp combos. Thank you

853

Hello!

I believe there have been some improvements but I’m not sure if it’ll make a difference in your setup. What are you currently using as headphones?

4 Likes
854

If you want a solid improvement in detail over the Apple dongle, check out the original Denefrips Aries dac. :+1:t3:

7 Likes
855

While I like the Apple dongle, I certainly hear more detail in the Modi 3+ & Heresy.

But as @driftingbunnies says, it could be dependent upon headphones.

5 Likes
856

Give us a list of test tracks and details that are missing from each dac.

3 Likes
857

In addition to what others said, your brain also improves in hearing distinctive details over time.

1 Like
858

Thank you guys for replying. I often listen to iem but want a new dac and amp for my LCD2. I listen to old us pop, r&b, jpop that have loads of details popping out at the same time.
I don’t have changes to use other hiend brands so I often used Schiit amps with their dacs. I don’t know which product from them are inefficient in term of detail quality.
They also lack the openness and seemingly perform the same volume on every notes(loud war/dynamic range compression)…

859

What schiit you been listening to?

Your descriptions make me wonder about your source files more than anything else. Maybe the schiit gear is revealing poor mastering or something. Your comment re loudness wars and compressions are generally more often applied to music production issues rather than more downstream components.

4 Likes